Host Advantage - Free Techs - A Poll

[SmartFart]

I've noticed if host starts with one tech he got worse land than if he have a clean start.
However...i let some of my opponents to start with one free tech (due to frustration because of 5-6 restarting) and somehow always finished with upper hand in those games (duels).
This need more testing,but i vote for clean start anyway.

[hydey]

Gee some people are lucky whenever I host I get nothing and I need all the help I can get but if I did get an advantage I would always tell my opponent as I want to win fair not by cheating either mine or the computers

[Ming]

AH, you raise a valid question.
I used to always wonder (like berzerker) that too. (gee aren't we paranoid)

Nothing worse than seeing great starting position after great position be lost because of resets. And usually, the minute you have a terrible one, the host is clean

For that reason, I always save a copy of the game before we reset. Then later, I will go back and check to see if the person actually had a science or not. This way, I will know whether to trust somebody as a host.

The good news is, I have never seen a host lie. The bad news is, I still check whenever I play with somebody that is hosting for the first time... paranoid... nahhhhhh

[rah]

Clean starts are a must. No matter how many times it takes. After 3 or 4 restarts, I'll bump up the world size a little.

AH, I usually host when I play, and I must admit, I've been really really tempted to say restart when my tarting position sucked but I can honestly say, I've never done it. Since there are people that save and check later, they will back me up here.

Since I probably host as much as if not more than anyone else here, I've seen it all
on starting position. I've seen the best territory (mulitple trade specials) with huts showing being negated by free techs. I have seen awful terrain without huts and no free techs. (happens more often then the prior for me )

The only advantage to hosting (as mentioned in other threads) is selection of civs. The higher you pick, better crack at river basins. But if you go first, you can't rush build to protect against barbs on surprise. Sometimes I try to pick the civ that I think will move second, but on tiny worlds where the good terrain is a premium, I'll try to go first and take my chances with the barbs.

RAH

[Bohlen]

This question is OT, but related to rah's comment about choosing a civ...."The higher you pick, better crack at river basins." Has this been discussed in a forum before? If so, can anyone direct me in the right direction? I've never heard this before, but would like to find out how this is possible.

------------------
Proud Warrior of the O.W.L. Alliance

[Ming]

I don't think that there has been a thread dedicated to this subject. But, the theory goes that the computer lays out the civs at the start of a game in order of "best" positions, starting with the white civ (Romans) and working its way right down the list. People seem to think that this is true. Some non-statistical tests have shown that it works this way much of the time, but as with any rule, there seem to be some exceptions. Plus, you and I may differ with the computer on what a good starting position is
Is this true? Who knows for sure. But it could place a premium on which civ you choose in an MP game, or any game for that matter.

[Smash]

Generally I think this is true.I have had about a dozen polar starts(thnx for the restarts) and at least 2/3 were with purple.The others were with orange

ideally I'll take green.The "no response time for barbs" of white can be a pain early.A real pain

there always seems to be exceptions though
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by Smash (edited May 23, 2000).]</font>

[rah]

The only problem with taking green, is when no one else takes white and you end up going first anyways. That happens to me about 50% of the time.

RAH
Sometimes being sneaky isn't good enough.

[Carolus Rex]

I'm usually not picky when I play, but here's what happened when I tried to debute in game league's ladder.

ICQed a guy in the league, asking him for a game. We agreed on the settings and I asked him about his view on the host's tech advantage (I wanted restarts). He insisted on "playing with what the dice deal", i.e. the host gets to keep the techs.

So I asked him "In that case, who should do the hosting?" and the guy insists on being the host...

As I said I play mostly for fun and I'm not too picky about this stuff, but this was supposed to be my first ladder game FOR CRYING OUT LOUD! I didn't want to lose my first game, had decided not to give a single inch away and only wanted a fair start!

So after a couple of messages back and forth about it I told him that in that case we should "let the dice decide who to do the hosting" (don't ask me how!). He messaged me back, accusing me of wasting a ton of his time and told me "Don't ever ICQ me again, you *****!"...

Oops!

Still haven't played my first ladder game...

Carolus

<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by Carolus Rex (edited May 23, 2000).]</font>

[rah]

Thanks, it's nice to be reminded why I stay away from those types of things.

Play with people you know. Or at least as well as you can over the internet.

RAH
Send the jerk's icq to the ferrets, they like playing with weasels.

[Ming]

CR... you showed amazing amounts of restraint by not posting the "******" name.

I play for fun, and that's why I stay away from civ league. Most of them are nice people, but the guy you mentioned is bad for Public Relations. Some people just take the game way too seriously

[War4ever]

i have a similar experience and i too will not name names

My first "ladder" game had a different twist.... i joined a game where the host stated if someone got dropped they were out of the game....... well i was first dropped as i had a pirated connection, but the stupid thing other than being duped in the first place for this kind of game is that everyone but the host dropped eventually, what a sham that was!!!!!!!!

No wonder he won, since this experience, i too have shied away from "ladder" play , although i feel this keeps me from being one of the best players, as a lot of great players only play or prefer ladder games

[Alexander's Horse]

I think there is no option but to restart if its a serious game.

[Ming]

On that we can agree AH...
But heck, I think you should restart until no free advances in games for fun too

[cavebear]

Go for a clean start. The beginning is too important, and there is a psychological advantage even if the starting positions balance out the free tech.

Someone who refuses to give up the host/tech advantage should be dropped from your game list.