Host Advantage - Free Techs - A Poll

[Ming]

As we all know, the Host in an MP games often gets Free Techs at the beginning of the game, and no one else does.

When our normal group plays, we just keep restarting the game until the host doesn't get any. Sometimes, the Host gets so many techs, the host can be in Monarchy by 3800BC.

When playing with some people who don't normally play in our group, they didn't seem to understand the concept that we would keep restarting until we got a "clean" start.

What do other people do in this situation?
Do they just play, giving the host a big advantage? Does the host even bother telling people he got sciences? Or do you do what we do, restart until it is clean?

Just wondering

[Curumbor Elendil]

Restart until clean. There has been speculation that there is a host advantage anyway--when he doesn't get techs, he likely has a good starting position. But it is better to eliminate an unfairness you know to be real than to allow it because of a conjectural unfairness in another area.

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Curumbor Elendil
jason.sorens@yale.edu
ICQ 56126989

[Ming]

You raise a valid point that has indeed been discussed before. Let's see, if the host gets a bad starting position, the host gets free techs, and many of us start again. If the host gets a good starting position, no techs, and then we begin. Now, I sometimes question whether the AI understands what a good starting position is when it handicaps by giving free techs

But you are right... the evil we know, vs a guess. Starting with free techs is by far worse...

[Smash]

in the hands of a good player even 1 extra tech can be decisive.This game tends to snowball for 1 or 2 civs so the game can become very lopsided quickly.

After about 100 restarts one time,Bird and I let Rah have a "handicap" of Bronze Working.That was a bad plan.Monarchy by 3300bc and The Gardens at 2800bc(I think) and the game was looking bad for us.Another wonder followed at 2000BC(just when I finally got Monarchy).The snowball was rolling early for Rah in that game.Just 1 tech to start and I'm sure if we continued Rah would have had first shot at whatever he wanted.

This would have been a perfect situation for Bird and I to "team" up but it was a no co-operation game so we were %^&^ed.

must restart or I doubt the game will ever be continued.

[Ming]

Yeah... I played a duel with Empress once. I was the host and had three techs. I told her I would restart, and she said no, go ahead.
(maybe she had a good starting position )

I had monarchy by 3700 and I was just cruising. It didn't seem fair...

Since the sciences you start with don't count against your beaker number for future sciences, it is a handicap that just keeps giving.

[VetLegion]

Doesnt increase the number of beakers for the next tech?? Amazing.

[Bohlen]

One would hope that any host knows the importance of free host techs and would tell the other players when they were received. I think that is the only fair thing to do. If you don't know the host, make it clear before the game starts what is expected of him or her if free techs are given and just trust that they do the honest thing and tell the other players when it happens.

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Proud Warrior of the O.W.L. Alliance

[carnide_]

Sometimes its hard to get down to zero techs.
I have proposed everal times to the host to cut down research for 5 turns. That will even things out a litle bit. In a for fun game its acceptable.

[Wezil]

That sounds like a great solution Carnide. It avoids the dreaded mp restart.

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'The absent are always wrong.'

Free the D**d Threads!!

[Ming]

If somebody gets many techs, that wouldn't be enough to even things out. Again, they don't count against future beakers... an awesome advantage that a few turns of reduced science won't make up for.

[Empress]

I used to not care about host tech advantage unless it was more than two techs. However, I have had a change of opinion after playing a duel with someone *cough*Ming*cough* who became so very far ahead after two little host techs. In fact, he was so far ahead of me in units and power that I ended up having to resign.

[finbar]

The alternative - host starting solo, getting a no tech start, saving the game, reloading and getting the other players in - is dodgy too. The client players, joining and picking up (effectively) AI civs, all get tech starts. Or they did the only time I tried the manoeuvre.

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finbar
Mono Rules!
#33984591

[War4ever]

you have to restart until its clean.... give me some free tech, and i guarrantee it will come back to haunt you....

Thats why seven player games suck, someone always gets tons of tech. Four players max is even tricky sometimes.

What we need is someone to make a map for four players, distributed it to everyone, and let those people play it. then someone else makes a map...... but of course its hard enough just to play without putting someone in charge of making map LOL

[Alexander's Horse]

A biT off topic (well? don't look at me like that), I have often wondered if players really have a tech when they say they do, sometimes I think they just don't like their starting position

[berzerker]

AH - Lol, I hate to admit it, but playing with a new host that always crosses my mind - especially as I watch 2 or 3 decent starting positions taken away by host techs.

restart till clean is the best - goofy designers...