Changes in rules.txt

[rah]

Yeah, that's never happened to me in MP.

[War4ever]

in MP i usually get ellies if that is going to happen........

[rah]

Yep, the only legions I ever see out of huts are RED.

[War4ever]

i have picked up a few tho....but they always come too late to be really effective, especially as they aren't vets yet

[rah]

Yep, unless people get iron from a hut, they don't research it until gunpowder is desired. I've always wondered why legions upgraded to muskets. You have a vet legion with and attack of 6 and bingo, he's a wuss again.

[Boco]

I wouldn't dismiss that hp difference. There is drop in quality, but it isn't major league wuss. Vet Legion against an Archer behind a city wall has ~49% chance of winning. Rookie Mouseketeer has ~42%.

It's the vet Ironclad -> rookie DD that irks me.

[War4ever]

the drop is huge......vets are just way more powerfull.....even if only psychological in my mind

[Boco]

Mano a Mano (sp?)

Not that anyone would fight fairly in open terrain, but pitting a vet Legion against a Wuss Mouseketeer with no modifications.

Attacker
6a, 1h, 1f vs 3d, 2h, 1f -> ~55% chance of victory

3a, 2h, 1f vs 3d, 1h, 1f -> ~73%

I won't venture to guess what's in your mind. Still wouldn't want to face you in MP. I'll stick to designing.

[War4ever]

all i know is i would rather have muskets over legions...... despite the numbers...

the extra HP makes a huge difference when you roll the dice...

attacking with muskets is lame unless they are vets and against pre gunpowder units...

but defending with non vet muskets works well against most pre gunpowder units.... only vet pults and crusaders pose any risk and you generally need a few of them to pull it off....

if i have gunpowder, you can guarrantee i will have cats with them...or crusaders to prevent the mobile units from getting a free ride .....

[rah]

Re: Mano a Mano (sp?)

Originally posted by Boco
Attacker
6a, 1h, 1f vs 3d, 2h, 1f -> ~55% chance of victory

3a, 2h, 1f vs 3d, 1h, 1f -> ~73%

I wasn't talking about defense, just the attacking portion. I don't use legions for defense, (well don't use them for anything) So I'd be more interested seeing the comparison above against identical defenseman.

[War4ever]

unless fortified on open terrain, legions for the most part are a sitting duck..with the sneak attack bonus a warrior can take one out....

i don't like legions much....far too costly, i can have settler for that price

[Boco]

War4Ever you pretty much summed up the comparison.

Rah, I'm slow. Which defensive unit did you have in mind? Here're a few.

Vet legion vs archer -> 82%
Musket vs archer -> 87%

Vet legion vs archer dfx3 -> 65%
Musket vs archer dfx3 -> 59%

Vet legion vs archer dfx3 -> 49%
Musket vs archer dfx3 -> 42%

I s'pose it's all academic since legions aren't cost-effective. Scenario designers, however, often use different hp/fp combos to add another variable to the mix.

unless fortified on open terrain

That extra 1/3 mf allows you to fortify routinely.

[War4ever]

yes but fortification by any of my cities on my roads is periless for you and even more so for your settlers should they wander....

comparisons are fine and dandy, remember the main comparison should be, how badly am i to be pounded as i make my approach to the un/suspecting city.

[rah]

Originally posted by Boco
Vet legion vs archer -> 82%
Musket vs archer -> 87%

Vet legion vs archer dfx3 -> 65%
Musket vs archer dfx3 -> 59%

Vet legion vs archer dfx3 -> 49%
Musket vs archer dfx3 -> 42%

No that's what I wanted to see, just to show my point that offensively sometimes you go backwards on the upgrade.

[SlowThinker]

Originally posted by Boco
I didn't pay close attention to the forum name when I posted. ST's got this thread crosslinked over half of Civ2 'Poly. Some of my reasoning for the Legion adjustment has to do with playing the AI.

This is OK, I edited the first post now.

172 is a Sleague trick discovered long ago by W Keenan.

Can it be used also for movement of 1 2/3 or 1/3 for example?