Fundamentalism is too powerful

[Ming]

Spies are a great way to get those defensive units out of the those fortresses on mountains. As stated, you still need an offensive unit to finish the job, but it sure is easier to take the unit out after you sabotage him twice with spies

[Sieve Too]

Nothing beats Fundamentalism in the pre or early industrial periods for war - assuming you have the requisite conquering techs. Each city you capture becomes an instant addition to your war machine. No disorder or starvation via Elvis to worry about. You need only leave a single unit behind, or in some cases, none at all. 8 free units means no slow down in producing new attackers. Tithes generate more gold than Communism. Rapid capture also means more plunder.

Later in the game, the balance of power tilts more towards Democracy and Communism.

IIRC early versions of Civ II gave Fundamentalism 10 free units and there was no max science rate, i.e. you could actually run Fundy at 80% science. Later versions toned down Fundy by reducing supported units to 8 and capping the max effective science rate at 50%.

[Ming]

Even the science restriction doesn't really hurt you in Fundy. By using caravans and just getting techs from cities that you take, you can still maintain a good rate of advancement. You can really crank those caravans out since you aren't lossing shields to support.

But, I will still go communism vs fundy if I have a choice (SOL).

[Scouse Gits]

Ming - to reach city celebrations with a 20% luxury rate in communism - are you assuming most cities have some trade routes or market places?

I am currently playing a game in commie - but am finding the lux rate more like 30/40% without good trade routes or MarketPlaces.

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SG (2)

[Ming]

Yes SG2... by the time I get to communism, I better have at least two trade routes set up for each city. Any real city will have a marketplace, and a few other improvements to help out happiness. If you have the happiness wonders, I've seen WLYD's with only 10%

[Scouse Gits]

I do have the Mike's & Bach's. However, the game started out as a real sleaze - quite a small continent for a large map. I have probably built too many cities on top of each other for a lower lux rate.

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SG (2)

[Ming]

Another trick is to maximize your cities for trade. Since shields aren't as much of a problem in Communism, you can afford to shift many of your workers to ocean or other trade squares. This really helps a lot toward getting WLYD's.

[Scouse Gits]

Yes, that does help. By jacking up the luxury rate to around 60% for a turn, means that most of the cities will celebrate. Then with the resulting double trade, the rate can be easily dropped down. This is the best way to play in fundy as all the caravns have a greater bonus. However, in fundy I don't mind reducing the science rate, which is poor anyway. (The difference between an advance every 17 or 27 turns is irrelevant - as advances come from trade/theft/conquest) Playing in communism, I am more reluctant to see advances drop from 5 to 6 turns so I can adjust luxuries!

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SG (2)

[Alexander's Horse]

Dear Ming (and others),

I was going for fundy in the big aussie game but got communism first. I have all my cities building factories and the first will come online in the next couple of turns. I need to upgrade my army, build a navy, and build city walls and sea forts. The two big alliances in the game are at war, which is good for me for now but I can't assume I won't be drawn in. I can build destroyers, cruisers, skii troops and cavalry, which is pretty much what everyone else has.

What would you do in my shoes to speed up the big industrial/military upgrade? Should I change to fundy when I get it?

Yours faithfully

"Nervous Neutral"
[This message has been edited by Alexander's Horse (edited June 08, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by Alexander's Horse (edited June 09, 2000).]

[War4ever]

Ming i would agree with you but not if your opponent is close by.... early on i like fundy especially if my opponent is on the same land mass. Strength in numbers of course. However if my tech lead isnt' huge, i will go commie and use WLTKD's to really capitalize on trade, science and martial law, while still churning out troops, spys and or settlers

[Ming]

WLYD's in Commie are great. Thanks to martial law, all you need to do is go to a 20% lux rate, and you can be producing the same level of trade as representative governments.
That's another reason why I like Commie over Fundy

[Ming]

First, it depends on how many units per city you are supporting. If you have tons, fundy provides the advantage because you can support more units (8) for free. Plus, the money generated in fundy could allow you to buy your city improvements instead of just waiting for them to be built.

However, if you are going to fall too far behind in the science hunt... then commie will work better.

[Father Beast]

OK, fundamentalism isn't really good for anything except total war. I really think that there should be some unhappy people somehow.
but as a total war, I find it hard to beat. I often have little cities cranking out huge unlimited amounts of fanatics, while the big ones make my main war units. fanatics are good for cannon fodder, fortifying around cities in a siege (until my army gets there), and general harrasment. the enemy buys a lot of them off me, but who cares? I have a lot more where they came from. this allows me to maintain HUGE armies without supporting a single unit.
If I have the UN, I can declare war or peace almost at will. no senate will ever get on my butt, no one will ever consider revolting. nothing gets in my way. democrats can't match my ease and bloodthirst. commies slow their production if they try to have a big army.
Oh, I don't have MP though. you guys would give me a challenge.

[Scouse Gits]

Surely you don't need the UN in fundy!? The only purpose of researching Communism is for Espionage.
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SG (2)

[Alexander's Horse]

Ming, thanks for the advice. I shifted into communism and can see the benefits of it.