Fundamentalism is too powerful

[Father Beast]

I have come to the conclusion that the Fundamentalist government is too powerful and upsets the balance of play in the game.
10 units PER CITY don't require support
Low corruption level.
Noone is ever unhappy, as if you built Shakespeares in every city.
Reputation hits are diminished.
No senate (or church hierarchy)overruling your decisions.

what's the disadvantages. Hmnnn... Science is halved. you don't get the trade bonuses of a representative government. that's it!

I find that the science drain isn't a bother, if you change after you've discovered everything you want, then go on to conquer your neighbors.
So just what makes anything else (besides a democracy) attractive at all. is there any reason to ever be communist, for example?
What do you all think?
[This message has been edited by Father Beast (edited May 15, 2000).]

[Smash]

Communist is potentially the most powerful government form.With happy wonders and trade routes you can celebrate "we love" days at no more than 30% luxuries.Now you have a corruption free Republic with no Senate interference,6 content citizens(martial law) and good production,gold and science.

I like vet spys more than fanatics

Fundy is strong but the low trade is not for me.I will go Fundy when there is nothing left to research but will celebrate "we love" to get some arrows happening.

[shamrock]

And I would say that democracy is easily the best (for single-player at least)!

Father Beast, given the difference of opinion in just 3 posts, perhaps the government types are well balanced after all...

[Venger]

quote: Originally posted by Father Beast on 05-15-2000 04:19 PM I have come to the conclusion that the Fundamentalist government is too powerful and upsets the balance of play in the game. 10 units PER CITY don't require support

Isn't it 8? Still, point taken.

quote: Low corruption level. Noone is ever unhappy, as if you built Shakespeares in every city. Reputation hits are diminished. No senate (or church hierarchy)overruling your decisions. what's the disadvantages. Hmnnn... Science is halved. you don't get the trade bonuses of a representative government. that's it!

That would hurt in the middle game, but in the end game, it's choice. Alot of people move to it once the research race is over. I don't because I just prefer to pick a government and stick with it, good and bad...

quote: I find that the science drain isn't a bother, if you change after you've discovered everything you want, then go on to conquer your neighbors. So just what makes anything else (besides a democracy) attractive at all. is there any reason to ever be communist, for example? What do you all think?

I think you should edit the rules.txt to make it more balanced for your uses. Maybe reduce the free support to 4 or so, whatever you think would balance it more.

Venger

[suas333]

Although Fundamentalism is supposed to support 10, i also have seen that it really only supports 8.

[Bohlen]

I would have to agree that Fundy makes the game too easy. I stay away from it when playing SP and become a Commie when I need to fight. It makes the game more of a challenge that way. What ever happened to the Fascism patch? Does anyone play with that patch anymore?
[This message has been edited by Bohlen (edited May 15, 2000).]

[Seeker]

I thought that democracy is too powerful:
100% rates, super trade, no bribery. With Women's Lib, Shakes Theatre, and MC you can even have an army. Watch out, Fundy boy, for an army of democratic spies with enough gold from WLTP days and a few turns of 100% taxes to buy those cities...

[Oldman]

It really depends on what stage of the game you're at, and what type of war you're in.

Total war needs fundamentalism, communism is good for a limited (almost cold) war and democracy or republic can support a defensive war. But the problem is the earlier in the game you are, research-wise fundy or communism will really hold you back. and no matter how much money you have, you can't have a total war with someone when your senate keeps calling cease-fires?!?!

Now having wrote all that, i've analysed the 3/4 advanced govt's and haven't answered the thread - doh!!! . I don't really feel that any is too strong though, if you trim them all back and make them each less powerful in their own rights, then you make them too similar and there isn't really any difference, and it doesn't matter which one you do have!!!! they each have their bonus'. Dem for tax and sci, but no war capabilities. Commie for an all round govt & then fund for all out war! if you're good you can get around the weaknesses of each, but you try having an all out war with 30 tanks and 2 dozen paras, where your objective is to completely crush a civ to nothing when you're a democracy!!

[AkwaticDudeCity]

In a standard civ game you get free support for up to ten units under Fundamentalism. In many scenarios it is eight. That's just how the respective authors figured it to be best.
As stated before, every government type has its advantages and disadvantages. The choice of government should depend on a combination of the plans you have for your civ and its abilities at any given time. I myself have come to take the path Despotism, Monarchy, Communism and when the time is right, Fundamentalism. That's because i always want to have a decent military presence and complete diplomatic liberty for my Machiavellian schemes
I feel this more than makes up for the extra science, gold and population i would have gained under Democracy.

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ugh crud, why won't they fall prey to my Machiavellian schemes?

[My Wife Hates CIV]

I thought democracy was also good. Until units started ending up as enemies after being bribed!! This latest version has changed. Units that are not stacked, of course, can be bribed. A big advantage (of the past) for democracy. Is this also true in MP?

[Scouse Gits]

MWHC - Isn't this a bug that was fixed in 2.42?

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Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor

[Steve Clark]

Oldman is right, it all depends on what stage of the game you are at. Is Fundy too powerful when trying to build a spaceship? Not at all. Fundy is very (not too) powerful only in one situation - total warfare.

[SilverDragon]

quote: Originally posted by Smash on 05-15-2000 05:10 PM Communist is potentially the most powerful government form.

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Long live the Communists!
-- SilverDragon

[Venger]

quote: Originally posted by shamrock on 05-16-2000 12:25 PM Isn't it obvious that Fundamentalism is a crutch for the weaker player?

The thread that would not die...

Venger
P.S. I would offer that Fundy is a little too powerful once the research tree is exhausted...I may trim it back to 5 free units or so for gameplay...

[Emperor10]

I think its pretty balanced...Fundie is the strongest war time government. But in a space race, give me Democracy any day. Communism is strong during periods of tension and little, short wars (sort of like a compromise between Democracy and Fundamentalism...at least it seems that way in the game ).