Fundamentalism is too powerful

[War4ever]

i goto monarchy right quick and then to republic for dramatic growth and the setting up of trade routes....... after i have found my more hostile neighbors i then go communist for war..... dropping into democracy for some quick techs and then to fundy for a large war..... back to democracy for more techs and then stay in that mode and mop up the opposition, while i send my huge ship off to explore new worlds.


commie is great for the ics er who churns settlers, units and caravans and dips out ..... as is fundy.

No govt is too powerfull but there are keys to the timing in the game to use all for the best possible effects.

In MP... fundy is great as it allows you to throw many many units at an enemy who likely isn't in the same gov't and not able to withstand your assault .. especially if you have SOL and become fundy early

Otherwise my solution is this.... grab a nuke and watch people reel back in horror as you show the world your diplomatic stance hahahahhahahaha

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Every Wednesday night between 5pm and 9pm it is War4ever... Come pin your pike on the jackass lest you be made a fool and turned into the jackass yourself....... same icq #

[shamrock]

Isn't it obvious that Fundamentalism is a crutch for the weaker player?

[Father Beast]

I find the best way is to change to monarchy as soon as possible, then republic and maintain a defensive stance and build my cities and develop. go directly from republic to democracy and stay there until I have almost all the tech I want, then turn to fundamentalism and become this super war machine to destroy my enemies.
Fundamentalism was new to civ2 (wasn't in civ1) and I don't think they thought it out thoroughly.

[Ming]

Each government has it's strengths and weaknesses. Whether it is WLYD's adding population, or a reduced science level... each government is meant for specific situations. I don't think Fundy is too powerful. Heck, if I'm in pure combat mode, I like communism better. You just have to love those veteran spies... now those are POWERFUL

[St Leo]

Watch out, Fundy boy, for an army of democratic spies with enough gold from WLTP days and a few turns of 100% taxes to buy those cities...

Watch out, Demmie boy, for an army of fundy spies with enough gold from Mike's and Adam's and a few turns of 80% taxes to buy those cities...

Dang, forgot about the Democratic immunity to corruption. What the hades was Brian thinking of with that rule?
[This message has been edited by St Leo (edited May 17, 2000).]

[Scouse Gits]

Communism with the Vet spies - as Ming says - is great. For real power build about 20 of them - then go Fundy!

The real problem with Fundy being so powerful, is not the form of govenment itself, but the reaction of the AI when the human player picks this option. The AI research rate slows down immediately to mirror the fundy player. Imagine the challenge the game could offer if this was different. Think about this scenario.

Suppose you are playing on a large map, and
are bribing/fighting your near neighbours into submission - the usual fundy game. However, somewhere the other side of the world are a couple of civs in demo - both allied with each other - building battleships - whilst you are still turning out knights. Then they both go communist - then you have a game.........it could be called CIV 3!?
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SG (2)

[War4ever]

LOL @ ScouseGits.... nah thats not till civ10 at least

[Scouse Gits]

Oh I definitely like it SG2
Are we on for tonight?


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Scouse Git[1]

"CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor

[SCG]

at the risk of beating a dead horse and opening a can of worms (and many other cliches you can think of :P ), and lacking multiplayer experience (unreliable connection on the machine i have civ2 on ), My experience with fundy governments is that they play right into the hands of an expansionist, defensive democracy (such as is my tendancy). No matter how much money they bring in (often the AI switched to them from democracy), I could buy off several cities a round and then use their own units to hold the line that round.

[tobyr]

Well, those of you who have seen my posts before know what I'm going to say, don't you...

If you find fundamentalism too unbalancing, play the ToT fantasy game, and play one of the tribes that are not allowed to have fundamentalism. That way it can only be used against you, which is pretty cool.

And by the way, in civ2, fundamentalism supplies free support for 8 units, not ten, despite what the documentation and rules file may say, right?

I almost always shoot for communism in the fantasy game. It takes a while to get there, and meanwhile you have to manage as best you can.

- toby




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toby robison
criticalpaths@mindspring.com

[DaveV]

RAH - and you didn't even mention the free support for 3 units. The shield drain for defenders, scouts, ships, and settlers can be a killer in the early days of representative governments.

[SCG]

No denying the drain of units on a resourses, which is why i use diplomats and spies to explore and use guerilla tactics at home, reducing the need for supported units when I'm a rep. govt. And as for vet spies, I just let my newbie spies take target practice at a loose barbarian or enemy unit. I sent 30 spies at a stray AI explorer once, and got 28 vet spies out of it, and the explorer simply fortified allowing me to do it some more

[Elspeth]

I thought you could use spys to destroy an enemy unit by sabotage? Is that not correct?

[rah]

After some experimentation, I 100% agree with smash. Communism CAN be the best. It doesn't require much in luxury to get wltkd. I was able to kick out as much science using that as a democracy with the same cities.

Nothing beats vet spys. If you get them first you can do a hell of a lot of damage, especially in MP.

No senate, and in SP you can still demand tribute.

RAH

[SCG]

nope, each time you sabotage you reduce the HP by 1/2 - and it cannot reach 0 in my experience. You need some actual attack unit to finish it off, although I'd think it would be neat to have a spy could wander into a MASH unit and pull out all the IV's They could use that life support beeping for that