The Sticky Mouse Senate - Succession Game

[Scouse Gits]

La Fayette...do what I did and download the 1000BC save from the log posted by Julius.

Sure Pottery was lucky but I would have had it anyway in a couple of turns...see how full F6 is in my save.

I don't know how many times Julius made contact with the Chinese, (he did get 100g ) but on first contact with the Babs I was offered no exchanges. Only on the second time I spoke to them did they offer a science exchange.

In tight situations (with no embassies) I have found it useful to talk to the AI every turn. They can suddenly acquire tech from huts like a human player. For all we know the Chinese may have Pottery as well.

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SG(2)

[La Fayette]

OK, I have compared the games, and here is my opinion:
The wrong choice was made by Julius in 1250 when he chose to research Trade instead of Pottery (sorry, Julius, this can happen to anyone of us).
This choice led him to build Colossus in Sticky Mouse, which is nice, instead of building HG, which would have been great in our situation (Monarchy forbidden, we are compelled to stay in Despotism much longer and happiness problems are more acute).
SG2 is perfectly right building more cities in his comparison game, since he knows that he is going to have HG within a few turns.
SG2, would you play the same if you started with the '1000' save at the end of Julius reign? (with Colossus and without HG)

[Scouse Gits]

La Fayette ... Sorry, I think I misunderstood your request about a 1000BC save. Yes I do have one for the turns I re-played and the advance rate then was 13 turns/8 gold per turn. If I post it here as a save file it could become confusing, but if anybody wants to see it I will email it out.

At 1000BC with no Gardens but with the Colossus I would expand and hope to catch the Gardens. With the Colossus I might be tempted to build a library in Sticky Mouse...I would have to look at things carefully.

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SG(2)

[La Fayette]

A non-Apolyton proposal

It's no use crying about what happened.
I don't disagree with SG2: I think his 875 save with HG and 12 cities would be a nice start for a strong midgame.
But we are now in 600BC (my save) with 8 cities, Colossus and no HG.
Here is my proposal:
We have 8 caravans under building. Let us use 6 of these to build the Oracle and switch the other 2 to temples, then build (or rushbuild) temples in the remaining 4 cities (2 temples are already there).
This will give us a civ with 8 cities, each of them able to grow to size 7-8 under despotism and switch to Republic very easily.
I call this a non-Apolyton proposal because the Oracle has never been much advocated on this forum, but I remember having won many games at deity level using it (a long time ago ).
Besides, if my successor chooses this way of growth, we are sure to have some heated discussions with the SGs... and THAT is fun .

[Scouse Gits]

La Fayette Heated arguments with the Gits NEVER!

The Oracle is an interesting proposal...except we need Mysticism to build it

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SG(2)

[El Civ]

If I understand our situation, and I may not, we are looking at the following:

1. We can try to keep pace in science--get ahead even--and risk an almost certain and widespread uprising from the malcontents among the citzenry

2. We can appease the masses with temples, perhaps Oracle and other means but almost surely fall behind other civs in science and maybe miss out on a wonder or two that we would like to build.

While I am not as well schooled in these matters as the others it seems to me that we should probably appease the masses, build a strong military and then go conquer elsewhere and steal the tech we missed out on in order to catch up. Either that or have dips steal it. Along the way we can trade like madmen and keep a steady supply of camels around for rushing wonders. BTW, are we going to be able to build HG before the AI does?

[Scouse Gits]

If I am reading the logs correctly we are virtualy certain to get the Gardens - we seem to have a sufficiency of Vans in train and all we need is the tech ...

But it may be a different story when we open the save game ...

SG[1]

[La Fayette]

Originally posted by Scouse Gits
Heated arguments with the Gits NEVER!

...except we need Mysticism to build it

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SG(2)

That one was not heated, but I confess it is very strong .

[Messer Niccolò]

I am missing something?

... since I'm at work, and far from my CivII.exe file (otherwise I'll have to change work.... ) I cannot see if any other Civ has built the HG. Have they?
If the answer is yes... well we have a seek and conquer mission on the table if not... well we have our camel factory already started. Some commodities delivered, some other in HG building... et voilà, beautiful flowers!

... and I don't like the Oracle at all ...

[Scouse Gits]

Messer Niccolò No other civ has built the Gardens, but there is a slight problem as The Sticky Mouse Senate has no idea how to make pots

Your turn now...save the Senate and build the HG
Good Luck!

The order of play is:

SG(2) Played
SG[1] Played
El Civ Played
Julius Played
La Fayette Played
Messer Niccolò Played
Bloody Monk
STYOM

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SG(2)

[La Fayette]

No one has built either HG or Oracle yet. We are currently researching Literacy that we should discover within 4-5 turns (with help of some caravans now under building).
We should then research Pottery (if available) or Mysticism (that would show you all that the Oracle can be pretty performing). Perhaps one of our scouting units will be able to trade the right tech in the meantime... or else we are not that far from Monotheism .

[La Fayette]

Give an SG a settler: he builds a city.
Give LaFayette a settler: he builds a road.

[El Civ]

Can we add to our cities and have our serfs remain happy with temples and HG and without Oracle? Or will we still be restricted to a certain number of cities until we reach Republic, regardless of anything else?

Or perhaps we could change the rules and play the entire game in Despotism

Oh, BTW, so that I can play in succession games without patch problems I broke down and bought a copy of MGE from Amazon earlier today.

[La Fayette]

el civ
Though in Despotism, we are FREE.
Our civ has no problems as it is (8 cities with happy or content people inside, almost linked by road and building lots of caravans).
What we are discussing is the best way to grow quickly,...and in fact there is no best way since there is some luck factor included in the process.
If the despots choose to follow my advice, they won't build new cities until we switch to Republic. If they follow the SGs, several new cities will be built...
But, in both cases, we shall grow and win, since we are so much more reactive than the AI .

[La Fayette]

BTW the ultimate version of civ2 is available in Toulouse for 20$. I could send a game to anyone willing to study the guidebook in French .