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The Sticky Mouse Senate - Succession Game

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  • #91
    What is our long term goal?

    Originally posted by Scouse Gits
    More Gentle Critique

    The real reason i pulled down the save was to see if the capture of Beijing was feasible - as you all know, after my pwetty fwowers I have a predilection for large bright lights - however, not yet seems to be the answer...

    SG[1]
    Before everybody gets all hot about taking the Lighthouse, I suggest a pause to consider. It gets to a central question that was in my dreams last night. (Please disregard the rim-shot opening ) What is our long term goal???

    If we are playing to conquer, there are certain considerations. But if we are playing for the stars, some of those elements will get in the way, in my opinion. If it is to be AC, then it is trade, trade, trade. And for that we will need Magnetism, I think. Lighthouse doesn't look so "bright" then. We will want to keep our Reputation polished up so we can send our vans throughout the foreign lands to demand cities--and reduce sneak attacks on our precious camels.

    And if we build STWA and delay Leo's a bit we can have our clads for a space of time. They can become vets the harder way and we can try to induce a declaration of war from our targets. We don't have enough cities to field an Invasion force with any muscle without clads. But no city can stand having two units in the field. But we need our ships for trade. Magnetism is the way...maybe

    So, Bloody Monk lays before the August Senate the question: What are our goals to be??
    so long and thanks for all the fish

    Comment


    • #92
      It is 100 AD, and STYOM is selected by the local oligarchs as Tricky Tacky of the Cool Consuls.

      History will record STYOM as the last (and, first!) of the 15 turn Consuls... so he resolves to leave his mark on the empire.

      STYOM surveys the map. We have lots of space, even between our own cities. We know where our enemies... err... trading partners... are. Despite the slow start, we're well positioned as leaders on the world stage.

      It's quite a good thing the Egyptians didn't get HG... I'm sure the barbarians now occupying Thebes have no appreciation for flowers

      Priorities:

      1) Acquire Construction, and other AI sciences.
      2) Stake out territory now that we can grow - especially towards the Chinese, who seem to be the most sophisticated of the foreigners.
      3) Get Mikes'... celebrate.
      4) Begin to trade with the foreigners.

      100: Trade swapped to Chinese for Construction. Alliance refused.
      Mysticism swapped to Carthaginians for Engineering. Carthaginians demand Mathematics - soft chuckling from the Consuls - so the Carthaginians remain Worshipful, but unable to count.

      We could acquire Iron Working and/or Warrior Code from the Egyptians, but given that we are still several turns from Mono (12/tech), STYOM decides to refrain from further trading.

      Science rate bumped to 1.3.6 - income drops but discoveries are now 9/tech. Elvises are fired in StickyMouse. Some caravan production is switched to Settlers, particularly in cities which have an Elvis already. We need cities - and we should easily have the Caravans to finish Mikes when the time comes.

      120: Senators Beach builds Caravan>Settler. Dye in South Senate>Settler.

      STYOM demands an Aqueduct in his capital, but there are no funds Perhaps I shouldn't have messed with the tax rate, thinks STYOM.

      Our Trireme sails up to barbarian-held Thebes, and we offer 80 gold to them to become civilized. Barbarians demand 260

      140: Nothing of real significance. Caravans travel our roads...

      160: Aqueduct purchased in StickyMouse for 58g.
      French begin to build a Great Library... suckers.

      (Incidentally, this is the only Wonder under construction in the world)

      180: Disorder in Senator's Beach... elvis hired. Settler construction is too early to be rushed there.

      Aqueduct in Sticky Mouse... starts Marketplace.

      Eye on Egypt founded, far, far away. Phalanx started there.

      French are now a Republic.

      Taxes adjusted to 2.3.5 - we will probably need to rush Marketplace in StickyMouse, if we plan to build Mike's there.

      200: J'Accuse founded>Phalanx

      220: Dye in Shorter Toga>Settlers
      Settlers in The Institute>Settlers.

      Lots of disorder now (Sarzana, Ides of March) - probably due to STYOM building too many cities

      Egyptians start Great Library. Cool, a wonder race. My money's on the French.

      Peace between Egyptians and French. Chinese start a Great Library, too.

      240: Monotheism discovered! After all my big talk, I'm not sure what the next priority is! With nothing on the path to University available, it's down to Banking, or Medicine (for Sani). Medicine selected (the Chinese are working on Banking, anyway).

      Marketplace rushed in Sticky Mouse.

      Ahh, diplomacy! The Indians are attacked by the Egyptians! Global stock markets plunge (if there were any)! Indians come to us, asking for us to honor our alliance with them and fight the Egyptians. We demur, mindful of our new city 'Eye on Egypt', so close to the Egyptians. The Indians then offer us 300 g, and STYOM can't resist that. So it's war with Egypt!

      (stock markets plunge again )

      260: Marketplace in Sticky Mouse; Mike's started.

      Pax STYOMania founded>Phalanx.

      Phalanx rushed in Eye on Egypt.

      280: Order finally restored in Sarzana (doing so earlier would have cost us a Settlers)

      The party begins in Sticky Mouse

      Taxes readjusted to 1.3.6, in light of the Indian largesse... which reminds me - contact Egyptians, cease fire in exchange for Construction.

      300: All quiet.

      320: Final construction Caravans enter Sticky Mouse, and 80 g is spent for the final frescoes in Mikes.

      340: Copper in MONKFISH>Settlers

      MICHELANGELO in Sticky Mouse>Caravan
      Phalanx in J'Accuse>Settlers

      Egyptians recapture Thebes from barbarians.

      360: Science rate tweaked to 1.2.7

      380: Chinese Trireme, apparently unoccupied, sighted S of Senator's Beach.

      400: Banking acquired from Chinese, for Philosophy.

      Senator's Beach builds Settlers>Crusaders
      Lucky Git builds Silk>Settlers
      Sticky Mouse hits size 12. All Elvises fired, again.

      (STYOM shouts obscenities at GOTO command - the road between Lucky Git and Sticky Mouse is tricky, just like the consulate...)

      His 300 year term complete, STYOM retires to the new city of Pax STYOMania (honouring the well timed war with the Egyptians). Pax STYOMania has everything the ex Consul desires - a beach, vineyards and steak on the hoof . Consequently he shall not return to power for many years...

      In any event the ex-Tricky Tacky feels good about having turned Sticky Mouse into a proto-metropolis, solved the happiness crisis and added 3 new cities on the edges of the empire.

      Thoughts: Medicine arrives next turn. (7 turns/tech). Good city sites abound - coal/furs to the north (Settler on the way), river w/ wheat to the west. And Sticky Mouse needs some terrain improvements. Thus, many Settlers are pending.

      Several AI Civs know Monarchy... none are researching Astro, yet. My successor can decide whether a trade for Monarchy (on the path to Theology) can wait until after we have Sanitation.
      Last edited by Six Thousand Year Old Man; July 24, 2002, 12:55.
      "I'm a guy - I take everything seriously except other people's emotions"

      "Never play cards with any man named 'Doc'. Never eat at any place called 'Mom's'. And never, ever...sleep with anyone whose troubles are worse than your own." - Nelson Algren
      "A single death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic." - Joseph Stalin (attr.)

      Comment


      • #93
        Here comes the save.

        I gave no serious thought to acquiring LH, given the distance, the lack of cash, and the unhappiness effects of sending an invasion force on a long journey.

        So far as tweaking the tax rates... I played with them a fair bit, but my main goal was to keep the science coming, and I didn't worry so much about getting our midsize cities to celebrate. Many of our cities hit size 5 by the end of my turns, anyway.

        And I didn't trade at all... due to the need for Mike-directed Caravans. Many Settlers will be ready soon, though
        Attached Files
        "I'm a guy - I take everything seriously except other people's emotions"

        "Never play cards with any man named 'Doc'. Never eat at any place called 'Mom's'. And never, ever...sleep with anyone whose troubles are worse than your own." - Nelson Algren
        "A single death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic." - Joseph Stalin (attr.)

        Comment


        • #94
          STYOM

          Good job getting us to this key junction in such good order.

          I echo your thought about where to from here and would learn much from a broad-based discussion of our options. This is new ground for me, playing Republic only, and maybe also for others. I'm not suggesting anyone should be bound by the debate outcome; just that it would be useful to have a vision of the possiblilities before us. From here on, it seems to me that the "blunder about" potential is growing.

          Sorry you missed my reference to the danger of trusting the goto command for camels. But, looking on the bright side, at least two of us now know that work needs to be done on the roadway to the Southern Cluster if we want to get the road bonus in trade routes. This is Bloody Monk suggesting we make lemonade from this lemon. Of course, that presupposes that those that follow on will have read this...
          so long and thanks for all the fish

          Comment


          • #95
            @Monk I did read it. So it's my fault. Not paying enough attention. I was expecting GoTo problems with long camel journeys, not a 6-tile move north and south.

            Next time I look at the save, I'm going to check to see if Sticky Mouse was founded on the Civ Prime Meridian (boundary between square 0 and square 100, horizontally). That often causes GoTo probs...

            Back to real strategy... rather than my blunders

            Normally when I get to this point, I try to beeline to Invention, get Leo's and upgrade all my settlers eventually. That'll kill the 'clads strategy, but it will also help our happiness in future as our triremes go caravel-(galleon)-transport. No unhappiness.

            Given that we aren't aiming for democracy, SoL, fundy etc, I suggest a tech path to sewers followed by invention. Build more cities, road (and rail) them together, build 1 ground unit per inland city, one sea unit per coastal city (more if we get Shakes - which I really like in Demo, but not so much in Rep?), and then we can go to war. Alternatively, build more cities, pump caravans into Sticky Mouse (or over to China?) and go to the stars.

            Re: Shakes - I like building it in high production coastal cities for ship support without unhappiness. I also like building it in the SSC to ease celebrations. Given that our SSC isn't on the coast, I'm undecided.

            I seldom go on the warpath early in the game on a map this size, so my opinions are definitely influenced by my usual strategy: get really powerful, and crush everyone once tactics/machine tools/espionage are available...

            STYOM
            "I'm a guy - I take everything seriously except other people's emotions"

            "Never play cards with any man named 'Doc'. Never eat at any place called 'Mom's'. And never, ever...sleep with anyone whose troubles are worse than your own." - Nelson Algren
            "A single death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic." - Joseph Stalin (attr.)

            Comment


            • #96
              Hail STYOM builder of our wonderful Chapel and Sticky Mouse expander.

              Just a point about producing settlers in republic…try not to build them in cities which are nearly 3 or have recently become three. The best way is to build them is in a larger city, (or a very small city) then the bigger cities can celebrate for a couple of turns to make up for the population loss. If the settler is need for a particular urgent task then go ahead!

              Like my predecessors I am wondering about our goals. I feel I'm at a large railway junction with several trains leaving for interesting destinations in 10 minutes but I don't know which ticket to buy.

              Thinking!

              -------------------------

              SG(2)
              "Our words are backed by empty wine bottles! - SG(2)
              "One of our Scouse Gits is missing." - -Jrabbit

              Comment


              • #97
                SG(2)

                If you don't want to bat it about a bit before you have your go, I'm sure you will have a well thought out plan and that you'll tell us about it in your log. Right??

                I'm pretty sure that a good case can be made for several of the trains you are considering. All I want is to be exposed to a lot of new, different ideas so I can learn something. My thinking is well expressed by STYOM, with, perhaps, a stronger lean toward the stars.
                so long and thanks for all the fish

                Comment


                • #98
                  which ticket to buy?

                  Up to now the general idea in succession games has been that anyone plays as he likes and the successor does his best with what he gets.
                  But we are perfectly free to change that (especially since we are now a Republic and are willing to run it longer than the English Republic ).
                  IMO it would be fun to build a few ironclads (IMO it's ALWAYS fun to build a few ironclads ).
                  Aux bords mystérieux du monde occidental

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Originally posted by Six Thousand Year Old Man

                    Next time I look at the save, I'm going to check to see if Sticky Mouse was founded on the Civ Prime Meridian (boundary between square 0 and square 100, horizontally). That often causes GoTo probs...

                    Back to real strategy...

                    Re: Shakes - I like building it in high production coastal cities for ship support without unhappiness. I also like building it in the SSC to ease celebrations. Given that our SSC isn't on the coast, I'm undecided.
                    STYOM
                    STYOM

                    Thanks for your strategy outline (which I have editted for purposes of comment) which it turns out is pretty much what I had in mind.

                    The dateline is about 20 clicks east of Sticky Mouse. I think the problem is that our road, while convenient for us, is off line and the Program doesn't 'see' it. We have to road some trees I think.

                    The Institute will be able to support 5-6 clads eventually, and still have shields for it's own needs. We'll need a canal city on the grass above Sticky Mouse, and a lot of irrigation. It is a strech but Shake's would work there, or somewhere like that.
                    so long and thanks for all the fish

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Scouse Gits
                      Just a point about producing settlers in republic…try not to build them in cities which are nearly 3 or have recently become three. The best way is to build them is in a larger city, (or a very small city) then the bigger cities can celebrate for a couple of turns to make up for the population loss. If the settler is need for a particular urgent task then go ahead!

                      SG(2)
                      Agreed...! I especially like building settlers in cities that have celebrated as high as they can (under default settings) and then as the settler is built, the city immediately is restored to its former size without needing to adjust lux - in this game size 5 seems to be the normal stop point for celebrations

                      In the instant case, I felt we needed settlers - there were only 4 on the map, and even now, there is much terrain in need of improvement around SM - and at the time there was no easy way to celebrate. Plus, I was also thinking of turning elvii into settlers - size 4 at the time meant hap-con-un-un, which becomes hap-con-un-elvis, and after a settler, hap-con-un. Better to build settlers than hire to entertainers who eat up all our peanut butter and bananas.

                      And I did found 3 new cities in my turns. I had to replace those settlers

                      [sleaze] I fully expect to see at least 15 more cities flying our flag after you and SG[1] have played... not counting ones that used to belong to other nations [/sleaze]
                      "I'm a guy - I take everything seriously except other people's emotions"

                      "Never play cards with any man named 'Doc'. Never eat at any place called 'Mom's'. And never, ever...sleep with anyone whose troubles are worse than your own." - Nelson Algren
                      "A single death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic." - Joseph Stalin (attr.)

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Scouse Gits

                        Thinking!

                        SG(2)
                        Oh, that's what I do wrong...

                        Seriously, I imagine those strategy discussions are quite interesting... advice provided is usually spot on, but bear in mind, during those Friday sessions you each have the other to bounce ideas off of, mention overlooked consequences to intended actions, or to play devils advocate. The rest of us just have to muddle along, on our own.

                        Of course, after 2 bottles the advantage must be negated somewhat...
                        "I'm a guy - I take everything seriously except other people's emotions"

                        "Never play cards with any man named 'Doc'. Never eat at any place called 'Mom's'. And never, ever...sleep with anyone whose troubles are worse than your own." - Nelson Algren
                        "A single death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic." - Joseph Stalin (attr.)

                        Comment


                        • Should the majority of publicans...er, I'm sorry ...Republicans wish to go one way or the other I shall follow suit as best I can. However, I also vote in favor of at least a modicum of assault and battery. Given the choice between eggheads with bigger brains than the others or soldiers with greater strength than the others I will choose soldiers. To me at least there is something more satisfying in conquering than in winning a science war. Must be my testosterone level flaring up. At age 36 I suspect I'd better enjoy those hormone infusions when they occur.
                          Hello, my name is Shawn and I am Civ impaired.

                          Comment


                          • Just a fairly unconsidered observation - assuming we were to leave the three toed sloth virtually alone on this large map -- do we feel that our advantages of humanity will outweigh their advantages of Democracy -- and Fundy for the ones that decide to upset us by constantly attacking and diverting us from our intended path.

                            I suspect that it might well be possible, but a hell of a lot harder than my natural inclination of knocking them all back to the Stone Age and then contemplating our options

                            SG[1]
                            "Our words are backed by empty wine bottles! - SG(2)
                            "One of our Scouse Gits is missing." - -Jrabbit

                            Comment


                            • Long Term Strategy

                              MAy our Reublic be healty , prosperous, whealty and all the other things in the centuries.
                              Now, if I can express my thoughts (which is proper of republican system ) I would suggest a space race... In all the succession games we won by conquest (except the Priest->Stars which is MGE ).

                              I vote for the Stars... but build some clads too
                              googol... this is a number!
                              "Silence Ming. I will let you know when I feel you are needed." - HappySunShine
                              "Classic Eyes...But in reality, it works the other way around." - Ming

                              Comment


                              • Peaceful Expansion, Trade and a Chinese Ferry Route

                                420 - Medicine It's a hard choice for the next tech...in the end I chose Astronomy...the Observatory is an easy one to miss! Whether we choose war or peace quicker research will be required.
                                Trireme built in Ides of March to open up our eastern coastline...I want to see a few more whales...and Ides has one

                                440 - Hide Coal founded;

                                460 - Sticky Mouse builds Bank
                                Silk > Sticky Mouse 36g; Hut 50g; Trireme reveals that Pax Styom is a four city special with fish in the harbour.

                                480 - Hides > Sticky Mouse 96g

                                500 - Beak Farm founded for Consuls who need gentle retraining...run by the strange Dr. Ruddy Duck...
                                Salt > Sticky Mouse 38g.
                                Celebrations in place for next turn ; Population = 2m.

                                520 - Mouseport founded; Population 2.6m.

                                540 - Population 3m; Copper > Sticky Mouse 74g
                                China Ferry founded to ease transport going west.

                                560 - Population 3.8m;

                                580 - Population 4.2m; Beads x 3 > Sticky Mouse 78g;34g;44g; Hut - 25g;
                                End celebrations.

                                600 - Astronomy; now working on Sanitation; Courthouse built in Spicealitum (This could well be our second city); Salt > Sticky Mouse 54g; Copper > Sticky Mouse 92g.

                                620 - Hides from Spicealitum > Sticky Mouse 208g. Coal to Hangchow 140g; Hut - Barbs

                                640 - Sanitation; now working on University;
                                Bridge Building stolen from our Egyptian friends - now we can road the rivers around Sticky Mouse - MarketPlace built in Spicealitum.

                                Current Tax Rate = Tax 20% - Science 60% - Lux 20% - Discoveries every 5 turns, making 74 gold per turn less 18 in overheads. 328 gold in the treasury. Population = 4.2m.

                                There are 4 food caravans in Sticky Mouse awaiting orders for the next wonder. No tech gifting was made to the Indians as we have sciences with wonder attachments.

                                ------------------------------

                                SG(2)
                                Attached Files
                                "Our words are backed by empty wine bottles! - SG(2)
                                "One of our Scouse Gits is missing." - -Jrabbit

                                Comment

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