Crusader Scenario Succession Game?

[Marquis de Sodaq]

Fellow crusaders, let us convert heathen Polermo. Island barbarian cities should have a horde of units by now, enough to disband into a cathedral if we are lucky. A place for the heathens to worship our gold, er... our god. Kcbob, if you start a novice preacher sailing in that direction (perhaps with a merchant to raise the needed funds), and the hunky monk Rasputin sees that his voyage continue, by my turn I can order the conversion. It's 2/3 of the way to the holy land, friends!

[kcbob]

So let it be written, so let it be done. Oh, wait, that was 2800 years earlier, a la Yul Brynner.

Polermo, it ain't over till it's over. Nope. Yogi Berra, 1800 years later.

Give me liberty or give me Polermo. Closer.

Alas, poor Polermo, I knew it well. Closer.

Forget it. Polermo, you're toast.

[La Fayette]

how to get to Jerusalem?

Dear friends advisors of the noble King Apolyton V 'Lion Hearted'

Our friend Marquis de Sodaq has just suggested that a caravel should be sailed heading for Palermo.
I don't think it is such a good idea. I shall try to explain why.
I shall also describe my own plan in order to make this crusade a success.
1) Palermo
There are 66 squares between Exeter and Palermo. This means 17 turns with the caravels we have now, and 11 turns with the galions we shall be able to build within 6 or 7 turns from now.
Quite a voyage! (and what do we do afterwards?)
2) Varna
Here is my plan:
I just bought Marieburg (size 8) for 432 gold (exactly the same price that SG2 paid for Viborg, same size).
This means that King Apolyton V can buy ALL barbarian cities visible now in eastern Europe (namely Visby, Königsberg, Posen, Gnesen, Budapest, Belgrad, Nis, Nicopolis, Sofia and Varna) for the modest price of 1664 gold or so. Very easy since the English Treasury is more than 2700 gold now in 1665.
There is also a powerful scouting unit (named scouts) available, able to travel 6 squares/turn.
I suggest that kcbob sends a pair of those scouts in the black area between Königsberg and Varna, and buys those of the 10 cities I just named that he feels like buying (IMO it is a good bargain to buy them all, since they are so cheap).
There are 24 squares between Marieburg and Varna. This would mean 8 turns travelling for troops coming from England or Scandinavia. Most of the road is already built. It only needs some
work to make it shorter here and there.
Short shipchain between England and Marieburg. Direct road between Marieburg and Varna. IMHO, this is the way to success.

[Marquis de Sodaq]

As the Archbishop of Sodaq does not have civ on his pc at the abbey, he cannot check the latest save game. He would concur with La Fayette, provided we are not going to have trouble with the Holy GeRomans converting the eastern heathens. The Polermo idea was to provide a safe haven for moving along the sea route. The many hills could provide a good production base, as well.

If we are already at war with the HRE, or plan to be soon, we will need to defend our new converts against them. The silver lining is that we would be able to take a city from them if they convert it first.

If we are at peace and wish to keep it, we will certainly need to move quickly. Otherwise bribing a city from the HRE (at double cost to avoid incident) will increase costs significantly.

In either case, a few veteran knights (2hp, 2fp) should be able to sack a city or two along the way, saving us some gold. The heathen defenders can't withstand very many of our valiant souls. What does the council think?

[Scouse Gits]

I have started the scenario from 1095, so I can play the early years. Both the strategies of Marquis and La Fayette are viable. The first main target has to be city with a wonder/s. Lubeck has Adam Smith's Institute and is near home. This would save 40g per year. Rome has Mike's and Sun Tzu. (The unhappiness in Monarchy with an increasing number of cities becomes imposible without a "happy" wonder, whilst Sun Tzu would allow us to sell a few barracks) For my money, Rome has to be the medium term target. A base on the Med is needed! Rome can be taken from the sea with Vet Galleas. Southern Italy can be bought from the barbs.

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SG(2)

[Rasputin]

A bribe only game

So there will be no war just bribery... would be interesting to play this game again but allow no bribing of citys ....

[La Fayette]

Re: A bribe only game

Originally posted by Rasputin
So there will be no war just bribery

Don't worry,Raz!
We talk about bribery now because we have no army, but there will be war in this game!

Here is my modified plan (after reading the Admiral):
I do agree that vet galleas is probably going to be our super ironclad in this game (kc bob should be able to start building a few in 1172 or so).
I do agree that Rome would be very nice to have.
What I dislike is being compelled to sail all the way through Gibraltar to get there.
Therefore, let us buy Gnesen, Buda, Nis and Belgrad, then take or buy Ragusa and/or Durazzo (they are both unwalled now , it seems, and should also be quite cheap since they are more than 15 squares away from Constantinople).
Then we buy Bari, Tarent, Messina and Palermo (yes, Marquis
), build a fleet, take Rome,...

[Rasputin]

i gues sits i just never palyed a game of bribing so many citys... I never felt bribery was a relasitic avenue, yes i may occur sometimes in isolated spurts in history but never on the grnad scheme of things as hapopens in civ 2

[Scouse Gits]

In my own game (I dispatched two early caravels with dips and caravans to the Med.) I have reached 1131 - and have just bought Palermo and Messina. However, there is a serious bug when you come to bribe these barb cities. The city window shows blue units (Holy Roman) in the garrison when you have paid the gold over! The answer is to disband these "traitors" - then carry on as usual.

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SG(2)

[kcbob]

Thought I'd keep you all posted. We had a crisis at our house last night so I was unable to get to the game. Tonight will be clear sailing, however. Guarooonteed. In the meantime, I'll pore over the various bits of advice and make sure that when I ignore them all, I'll be able to defend myself appropriately.

[La Fayette]

Originally posted by kcbob
I'll pore over the various bits of advice and make sure that when I ignore them all, I'll be able to defend myself appropriately.

You are right kcbob.
This is a succession game, after all. The purpose is to add our mistakes just for the fun of telling bad words when each one of us discovers the pityful situation left by the previous adviser (I am sure you get a lot of nasty vocabulary available when looking at what I just left you with).

But it is also fun to discuss what we might do, even if we don't do it (and it seems that SG2 has started something else: playing the game for himself at the same time; this induces me to start my own crusade, for the sake of comparison, but I must finish the 'newworld' scenario before that, and it's hard fighting for the time being).
Anyway, here are some calculations 'à la samson and solo' in the field of research:
About 1600 beakers left before English scientists discover The Compass. 5 merchants on their way, which could bring about 800 beakers through one time bonuses within about 5 turns. Beakers produced otherwise: about 55/turn. This means about 15 turns left before discovery of The Compass, if no other delivery in the meantime.
But, if you change the settings, beakers produced climb easily over 150/turn and The Compass should be discovered in 6 turns (perhaps even 5 with a little bit of luck).
Now, kcbob, this is information.
You do what you will.
Have a nice time!

[kcbob]

Originally posted by La Fayette

Now, kcbob, this is information.
You do what you will.
Have a nice time!

All seriousness aside, LaF, I'm sure I'll pay very close attention to the suggestions. This is a tough scenario. And I will have a nice time. After all, this is Civ II.

[Marquis de Sodaq]

Re: Re: A bribe only game

Originally posted by La Fayette
Don't worry,Raz!
We talk about bribery now because we have no army, but there will be war in this game!

Therefore, let us buy Gnesen, Buda, Nis and Belgrad, then take or buy Ragusa and/or Durazzo ...

The mad monk will be able to accept blood and gore offerings from the heathens yet! Just as SG2, I played the scenario on my own for about 50 turns. Some of my strategy ideas have come from that.

From the first turn, I sailed a cog with two knights to the mediterranean. Those two fellows sacked Cagliari and that city on Cyprus (which later got razed by those ingrate Turks). From Cagliari (with barracks ) I built units to sack Marseille, convert Polermo, and then sack Durazzo. Ragusa was already walled when I arrived. I couldn't hold Marseille, but southern Italy was cheap. At the end, I had killed many frenchmen and heathens, and had a 5 city base in the mediterranean.

On the eastern front, the HRE had no trouble punching thru the heathen cities with knights. City after city fell with only some losses to the HRE. The best defenders they have are those quaint light infantry fellows with the nice helmets and spears. I suspect a boatload of our veteran knights could teach them the way to righteousness...

In our game, the Sardinians built walls. The Polermo bug is odd, but doesn't prevent us from buying a swarm of units. The Byzantines are in a pinch, they won't stay hostile for long. Send some bad guys that way for Raz, he'll be able to find something unwalled!

[Rasputin]

Blood Offerings

Ahhh now you talking my sort of game....

[kcbob]

Originally posted by Scouse Gits
Woops, my alter ego - you have neglected to put the save game in the same directory as the d/led scenario!!!

I can't believe it!! I'm having the same problem. AARRGGHH!!

But what is the 'd/led' scenario directory?? If I can't figure this out by tonight, I'll pass on my turn.