Only 7 Civs?

[CrazyOldBear]

I don't know if this has come up before, but surely there must be a way of editing the game to contain all 21 Civs simultaneously? I really need there to be more for a scenario I am working on, not that anyone will play, but it's for personal use as well. So, if anyone could help I would be extremely grateful, as I haven't a clue, maybe one of the DLL's? I suppose you would have to alter the cities.gif so it has more flags as well? I am playing on original Civ with CiC installed.

[campmajor!]

As far as I know it is not possible to play with more than 7 civs in civ2.

But maybe in civ3 there will be more (wishful thinking ).

[CrazyOldBear]

Thanks mate. I really think this should be an option. Maybe people would want to try and battle through many more different Civs all struggling for power? This one really annoys me, I have a scenario and don't know whether to include the French or Australians? Or whether to have the Nigerians or Polish? It would all be solved if there was mroe flexibility

[Marquis de Sodaq]

Don't forget civ #8, the barbarians. They can be used very productively for minor civs. The scenario "Hellas" is one example of this done well.

If you want to prevent bribery, each barb city can be outfitted with a palace. If they shouldn't produce units, you can monkey with the rules while creating the scenario to make a no-move, high shield cost unit (takes more turns to build than are in the game, for example) to occupy each barb city. Similar tweaking can be done to have a barb city pump out naval units. Minor tribes can be objectives that don't require any concern for reputation, and work with events just like any other city.

The obvious drawback is that these minor civs will not come into play with diplomacy.

Multiple palaces can be placed within one of the regular civs, as well. Thus you could have a palace in both Warsaw and Lagos, but have them be the same civ. This would be best if the nations being represented were "allies" in your scenario, as they will, of course, act together. Sack Krakow, and the Nigerians, too, will sue for peace. Some Hapsburg scenarios do this, with a palace in Madrid and Vienna. Check the Scenario League site for more!

[The Andy-Man]

i find 7 civs restricting. with atleast 15, there is a morwe realistic chance nations would form aliance blocks (like the triple entente etc) and they would mean something. with 7 civs, it is inevitable that once you reach a certain amount of power, your allies will just break the alliance and declare war and you are left taking on 5 civs on your own.

history shows that the only dterent to mighty power alliances is another power alliance, so where is the realism of me conquering another 6 civs all alied?

[CrazyOldBear]

I'm glad I'm not the only one. I thought one of the DLL's might of been holding the key to the prob. Thanks anyway 4 the help

[The Andy-Man]

you could use a hex editer on the exe. that might work,.

[Rasputin]

i thought all the 'experts' have said you cant change it... would be interesting to see if any of the prgrammers in our midst have any more suggestions ...

[CrazyOldBear]

Has this been raised before at all? i thought it would have been as I feel it is a big restriction. Where can I find a hex editor? One with a simple interface if possible (I haven't hex-edited b4, but I do a lot of other editing).

[Mercator]

• Information for all civilizations (inculding barbarians), in the executable, scenario files, savegames etc. is in several cases located in one byte (i.e. 8 bits, one for each civilization), so that wouldn´t allow for any expansion.
• The information that restricts the number to 8 is everywhere! In the executable, but also in the structure of savegames and scenarios. You´d have to rewrite Civ2 (try that without the source code) to change it.
• The 21 civilizations are 3 times 7 civilizations. That is, in all cases the 3 civilizations with the same color are represented in the same place in the files, so they can never co-occur.
• Hex editors can, by definition, never have a simple interface. Hexeditors can make it easier for a user to perform certain actions, allow more complicated actions, or provide a comprehensive help file, but you´ll have to know some basics at least, before starting.
• If you´ve never seen the source of a binary file, or never used a hex-editor before, chances are very slim you´ll beat the minds of those who have gone before you (e.g. Allard Höfelt, Andrew Livings, Carl Fritz, Rune Berge, Julius Brenzaida, Angelo Scotto, James Dustin Reichwein, C.A. Flinchbaugh, Dorian Credé and me are some names that spring to mind)

So, nope.

But if you have plenty of spare time, by all means... Get Allard Höfelt´s Hex Editing doc, for instance, and try to see if you can reproduce (some of) the things that are in there.
That way you´ll be ready by the time Civ3 comes out.

Most of the spicy details from Civ2 have only become known the last 2 years or so. I hope everyone jumps onto Civ3 right away, so we can figure out all the details quickly and improve ourselves what may be lacking.

[Marquis de Sodaq]

Mercator beat me to the post by moments!