Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

OCC 2003 Comparison Game #2

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #46
    Well, after launching we can kick buttocks… no?
    1768 Superconductor, trade for Polytheism
    Why trading (which adds one to your tech total) instead of giving it away to your key civ? Unless you had no other choice but Polytheism and trading got it out of the way?
    (\__/) Save a bunny, eat more Smurf!
    (='.'=) Sponsored by the National Smurfmeat Council
    (")_(") Smurf, the original blue meat! © 1999, patent pending, ® and ™ (except that "Smurf" bit)

    Comment


    • #47
      Usually after Sup (occasionally after Pla) there has to be an off-path tech in order to get to FP. I like to trade for Cmn earlier (after someone ELSE kills off my Marco Polo) when I am forced off-path, so I can do Esp and be ready with some Spies when the time comes. If I have cranked down the research I will trade for a dumb tech instead. I traded for Pottery recently between Sup and FP, wondering if it would change the SSC commodities: it was so late in the game there was no discernable effect.

      Solo - My "vote" is post your game in a new thread, call it OCC/EL Challenge, and we can let players decide which they want to try, then we'll compare results. Sounds fun.

      Comment


      • #48
        OCC 2003 #2

        PreGame Analysis:
        Hut(74,58)=seed 16
        nearby Huts (80,58-close!), (88,54), (75,41), rest water
        draw on MapEdit: seed=48, hidden is Whale, 2nd 4x (79,57)
        continent #13
        no free techs
        Raging Hordes
        restarts on
        TOP5: #1/White=Rome, #3/Blue=German

        Start Plan: pop hut & 2nd east, check other 4x plus SE, settle
        Build Plan: Warrior-Library-Diplomat-Colossus
        Tech Plan: Alp/Wri/Bro/CoL/Lit/REP/Cur/TRA/Map/Mas/Cst/Cer/?

        4000BC- 1st Settler: Hut(74,58): Horse(NONE); Horse east
        ...2nd Settler southeast
        ...(79,57) 4x is grass! and (77,63) 3x too
        3950BC- Hut(80,58): 50g (rats)
        ...TOP5: #2/Green=Babylon
        DECISION:
        (75,59) is Gold-Whale-(Buff)-(Silk),11grass,4ocean,6river,19Shields
        (79,57) is Gold-(Buff)-Buff-Fish,7(+2?)grass,3ocean,20-22Shields
        (77,63) is Gold-Whale-(Silk),12-14grass,2n-ocean,10river,19Shields
        (+4 rivers,+1-3grass offset by Buffalo+ocean access?)
        ...found TENOCH at (75,59)+2F,4T,3Sh: start Warrior
        start Alphabet
        3800BC- Hut(88,54): Archer(TEN)- nobody nearby
        3750BC- ALPHABET; start Writing
        3400BC- TENOCH size 2, switch Pheasant to Gold: 4t@6b
        3350BC- WRITING; start Bronze
        3150BC- RB Library
        3100BC- BRONZE; start CodeLaws
        2850BC- meet Icy German: 6Sp,dem Wri for peace,Neut,exch Bro for Mas?no,gift Bro to Recep,ally?nothing2offer,end (Aztecs are Mighty=Orange)
        2800BC- 1st Diplomat; CODE LAWS; start Lit
        2500BC- Dip embassy Germans: Desp,62g,1city,5techs(got Cer,Mas),res CoL,WAR ROME! re-contact Enth Germ: 5Sp,gift CoL (pres res) to Worsh,ally?YES!!!
        2450BC- LITERACY; start Republic!
        2250BC- TOP5: Washington(2) is Barb!
        2100BC- Barb uprising east of TENOCH: 2xHorse,Ldr disappeared
        2050BC- REPUBLIC (missed by 2b!); start Currency
        2000BC- Worsh German: 5Sp,exch Lit for CER-BUR,gift Rep,end
        1950BC- Temple
        1900BC- REVOLT: REPUBLIC T20S80
        1800BC- German govmt Republic!
        1600BC- Barbs land SW: 2xArcher+Ldr; CURRENCY; start Myst
        1500BC- Germans get Maps from Romans, peace treaty
        1350BC- Horse "captures" BarbLdr: 150g! RB Mktplace
        1200BC- MYSTICISM; start Philosophy!
        1150BC- Germans develop Iron! kill BarbLdr!
        1100BC- TENOCH size 3
        975BC- contact Roman Leipzig Cordial: 6Sp,dem Rep for peace,Enthus, gift CodeLaws to Worsh,ally?no use,end; Dip makes embassy Romans: Desp,172g,4cities,11techs,res Phil!
        925BC- PHILOSOPHY; freebie TRADE; start Maps
        900BC- TENOCH supplies Hides/Silk/Dye! contact Worsh Germans: 5Sp,exch Philos for MAPMAKING, Tra for MASONRY,sh maps, gift? 150g! contact Enth Romans: 6Sp,gift Philos to Worsh,sh maps,ally? dem Tra,YES!,gift?sympathy,goodbye
        1st Dye caravan!
        WLTCD in TENOCH!
        start Construction
        850BC- TENOCH size 4
        825BC- TENOCH size 5
        2nd Hides caravan
        800BC- TENOCH size 6
        775BC- TENOCH size 7, cancel WL
        3rd Silk caravan
        750BC- caravan meets Worsh Germ settler: 3Sp,exch?no,sh maps,gift?100g
        725BC- 4th: Hides
        700BC- Dye to Berlin(5/Dye/Cop/Wool): 160g/b,+5 (frees GOLD!)
        (Berlin now Wool/GOLD/Silver);CONSTRUCTION; start Bank (vs Math-Astron)
        675BC- 5th: Gold!
        650BC- delay Hides delivery to preserve Gold demand
        625BC- 6th: 2nd Hides
        575BC- 7th: 3rd Hides
        550BC- ARGH! Gold arrives, Berlin switches to (Dye)Cop/Wool! Hides to Berlin(6(Dye)Cop/Wool): 80g/b,+5
        Berlin again Wool/GOLD/Silv! BANKING; start Medicine!
        525BC- Gold to Berlin(6/Wool/Gold/Silv): 209g/b,+5(3rd!)
        8th: 1st Food
        500BC- MEDICINE; start Math
        475BC- contact Worsh German: 3Sp,gift Cst,gift?50g,goodbye; Enth Roman: 6Sp,gift Cst to Worsh,gift?patience thin,goodbye (misers)
        Germans report war with Romans!
        425BC- Romans lose Neapolis to Barbs!
        375BC- Silk caravan stumbles into Neapolis! between turns: Roman Legion wipes out Neapolis!
        350BC- Germans get Bank from Romans for Iron, PEACE!
        MATHEMATICS; start Univ
        325BC- Romans start Marco Polo (uhoh)
        300BC- Enth Rom: 6Sp,gift Med to Worsh,gift?75g,goodbye; Enth Ger: 2Sp,gift Myst to Worsh,gift?patience thin,goodbye; Indians start Colossus!!!
        275BC- Silk to Rome(5/Dye/Cop/Silk): 240g/b,nochg!
        UNIVERSITY; start Astron
        250BC- start Shakes, 6 Food caravans (frees Silk!); chg T0S70L30 for WL
        200BC- TENOCH size 8; RB Aquaduct; free Silk chgd to Wine!
        175BC- TENOCH size 9; Roman govmt othro (finally!)
        150BC- TENOCH size 10, Wine caravan
        125BC- TENOCH size 11; Enth Rom: 6Sp,gift Univ to Worsh,gift?50g,goodbye; Enth Ger: 2Sp,gift Univ to Worsh,gift?patience thin,goodbye
        100BC- TENOCH size 12, chg T20S80; Germans get Bridge!!!(hut?)
        50BC- ASTRONOMY; start Chem (20th!)
        25BC- Enth Ger: 2Sp,exch Ast(gulp) for BRIDGE,Worsh,gift?no,goodbye
        1AD- (hey- what happened to Cumae's demand for Wine?)
        20AD- Wine to Leipzig(3/Dye/Silv/Silk): 106g/b,nochg
        60AD- Indians near Colossus!
        80AD- KeyRd to Berlin finished: +7->+10! chg to Colossus, 4 Food caravans (Wool freed); CHEMISTRY; start Theory Gravity
        120AD- Romans near MarcoPolo!
        140AD- start MarcoPolo,1Food & 2 Hide caravans, disband Dip +140g
        160AD-
        ==============
        Marco Polo Analysis:
        Enth Rom: Rep,300g,7cities,21techs,Res Econ,Peace Germ,War Ind
        Neut Bab: Desp,323g,5cities,10techs,Res Cst,War Ind
        Enth Ger: Rep,408g,1city,23techs,Res Sea,Peace Rom
        Icy Amer: Desp,288g,3cities,11techs,Res Cur,War Engl(got Sea,Wheel)
        Icy Engl: Desp,261g,4cities,10techs,Res Wri,War Amer(got Sea,Wheel)
        Icy Indi: Mon,313g,4cities,12techs,Res NON,War Rom,Bab(got Iron)
        Aztecs want Wheel and maps, give away Republic
        ==========================
        ...Icy Amer: 0Sp,dem Lit for peace,gift Rep,Tra,Cst to Worsh,
        exch? too busy,sh maps,nomore
        (Amer got 2 Settlers, Trireme out; Barb Wash size 4!)
        ...Neut Bab: 3Sp,dem Lit for peace,gift Rep,Tra,Cst to Worsh,
        sh maps?no use; gift Phil,Wri,Map,sh maps,end
        (Babs got 3 settlers,Indians landed NE coast)
        ...Icy Ind: 5Sp,war Bab?no,dem Cst for peace,gift Rep,Tra,Mys,
        Phil to Worsh,sh maps,end
        (Indians got 3 ships, no visible Settlers, lotsa trees)
        ...Icy Engl: 1Sp,war Amer?no,dem 50g?no,WAR (sigh)
        (looks like English are closest...)
        ===================================
        180AD- Enraged Engl: 0Sp,war Amer?no,dem Cst for CF,gift Rep,Wri to
        Worsh,exch Tra for WHEEL,sh maps,end
        200AD- THEORY GRAVITY; start Eng
        280AD- Enth Germ: 1Sp,gift Wheel to Worsh,gift?patience thin,goodbye; Enth Rom: 6Sp,dem Ast to Worsh,gift?75g,goodbye
        300AD- Recep Engl: 1Sp,dem Philos,gift Bridge,Bank to Enth,peace,end; Romans start Copernicus!
        320AD- ENGINEERING; start San!
        400AD- start Copernicus,6 Food caravans
        420AD- Enth Ind: 4Sp,exch Univ for IRON,gift lots,sh maps,nomore; Enth Amer: 0Sp,exch Eng for SEAFAR,sh maps,nomore; SANITATION; start Invent
        460AD- RB Sewers
        480AD- Enth Rom: 6Sp,gift Eng to Worsh,gift?200g!,goodbye; chg T0S80L20 for WL
        520AD- TENOCH size 14 (FBF)
        540AD- TENOCH size 15; bribe Rom caravan 110g: Hides; produce Silver caravan! INVENTION; start Nav
        560AD- TENOCH size 16
        580AD- TENOCH size 17; RB Bank; GreatLibrary in Babylon
        600AD- TENOCH size 18
        620AD- TENOCH size 19; RB Harbor; Germ dev Nav! govmt othro (uhoh)
        640AD- TENOCH size 20; Enth Germ: 0Sp,exch Invent for NAVIGATION,gift?no symp,goodbye; German govmt Monarchy (RATS)
        start Physics
        660AD- TENOCH size 21, cancel WL; RB Univ
        680AD- PHYSICS; start Democracy!
        720AD- 1st Caravel takes Dip&2xCamels
        740AD- DEMOCRACY; start Mag
        760AD- REVOLT (T20S60L20)
        DEMOCRACY: T0S80L20

        780AD- German govmt othro; 1st Settler in TENOCH; WLTPD!
        800AD- German govmt Republic! (+16->+18!)
        820AD- TENOCH size 21 again; bribe Roman camel 147g: Gems! Enth Ind: 4Sp,exch Invent(pres res) for ECONOMICS,sh maps,nomore; Wool caravan; MAGNETISM; start SteamEng
        840AD- TENOCH size 22,+0F chg T10S90; Barb Frigate approaches!
        860AD- 3xBarb Legions land (also near Berlin)
        880AD- bribe 1st BarbLegion 82g, kills 2nd: deep red; bribe 3rd Legion 82g,Frigate 102g, load Hides; STEAM ENG; start RR
        900AD- Hides to Ashur(8/Cop/Dye/Silk): 360g/b,nochg
        920AD- RAILROAD; start Indust
        940AD- Silver to Babylon(8/Cop/Silv/Silk): 567g/b,nochg
        INDUSTRIALIZATION; start AtomTh
        960AD- start RRing to Berlin, gift RR to all
        980AD- Hides to Nottingham(6/Cop/Dye/Hide): 339g/b,nochg
        ATOMIC THEORY; start Corp
        1000AD- start Newtons, 8 Food caravans (Oil,Cloth freed!)
        1020AD- Enth Bab: 5R,exch Dem for GUNPOWDER,nomore
        CORPORATION; start Metal
        1040AD- Cloth freight
        1060AD- METALLURGY; start Explos
        1080AD- Barb Frigate approaches TENOCH; Babs dev Explos; Oil freight
        1100AD- disband Caravel; 3xBarbLegions land from BarbFrigate
        Germ govmt othro (again?)
        EXPLOSIVES; start Elec
        1120AD- bribe BarbLegion 82g (other doubled); kill other 2: yellow; gift Explos to all; German govmt Monarchy (again?); 1st Engineer in TENOCH
        1140AD- disband new Legion for Transport
        ELECTRICITY; start Refine
        1160AD- 1st Transport takes Wool,Gems,Oil
        1180AD- REFINING; start Steel
        1200AD- Cloth freight to Hispalis(4/Dye/Wine/Cloth): 240g/b,nochg
        1st POLLUTION
        1220AD- STEEL; start Combust
        1260AD- bribe Barb Crusader 82g; Enth Rom: 6R,exch?no,sh maps,gift?200g!,goodbye; German govmt othro again!
        COMBUSTION; start Auto!
        1280AD- RR path finished: +24ea!!! Wool caravan to Ellipi(6/Cop/Dye/Wool): 382g/b,nochg (Ellipi now Coal/Wool/Silk); Gems caravan to Ur(8/Dye/Cop/Coal): 215g/b,nochg (Ur now Coal/Cop/Wool); Oil freight to Ur(8/Coal/Cop/Wool): 322g/b,nochg
        Hmmm: German Eng on my RR,extension appeared suddenly...
        1300AD- ah: Frankfurt just off bend of my RR...
        AUTOMOBILE!!! start Refrig
        1320AD- RB Superhighways; Enth Germans: 0R,gift Auto!,sh maps,goodbye
        1340AD- Germans near Darwins! REFRIGERATION; start Conscr
        1360AD- bribe Rom caravan 147g Wool; Enth Germ: 0R,gift all but Combust,gift?no,goodbye; WonderBread frees Oil&Gems!
        Darwins in Berlin! get Conscr & Chivalry! chg to WomSuf
        Gems freight; CONSCRIPTION; start MassProd
        1380AD- disband Settlers for Eng, chg T0S80L20 for WL, 2nd Eng in TENOCH, WLTPD
        1400AD- capture BarbLdr west of German-land: 150g; Oil freight
        MASS PRODUCTION; start E2
        1420AD- TENOCH size 21 again, cancel WL; Worsh Germ: 0R,exch MassProd(pres res) for CHIVALRY,goodbye
        Germ chg to SunTzu, GOVMT OTHRO!
        ELECTRONICS; start Ldrship
        1440AD- bribe Rom transport 157g (supp), bribe Barb Crusader 82g NONE; RB MassTransit
        SunTzu in Berlin; Germ chg to WomSuf; govmt Democracy!!!
        LEADERSHIP; start Tactics
        1460AD- bribe Eng transport 185g:NONE!
        TACTICS; start MTools
        1480AD- bribe Eng transport 272g:NONE; RB Factory
        1500AD- disband supported Transport, RB Hydro
        MACHINE TOOLS; start MobWar
        1510AD- disband 2nd supported Transport, RB SuperMkt; bribe Amer Transport 175g, bribe Amer Destroyer 291g, bribe Barb Ldr/Dip 61g
        MOBILE WAR; start Min
        1520AD- ...bribe Rom Eng 736g NONE!
        1530AD- Oil freight to Ur(8/Dye/Cop/Silk): 660g/b,nochg; chg T80S0L20 1Sci for WL
        MINIATURIZATION; start Computers!
        1540AD- bribe 2nd Rom Eng 792g; Wool caravan to Ur(8/Coal/Cop/Wool): 880g/b,nochg; Gems freight to Ur(same): 660g/b,nochg
        COMPUTERS; start Rob
        1550AD- TENOCH size 22, RB ResLab
        1560AD- TENOCH size 23; bribe 3rd Rom Eng 492g; RB OffPlatform
        Babs dev Combust (uhoh)
        ROBOTICS; start NucFission
        1570AD- ...TENOCH size 24,+1F, chg T20S80 (time to start Foresting)
        WonderBread frees Oil&Gems! Gems freight
        NUC FISSION; start NucPower
        1580AD- GERMANS DEV COMMUNISM (rats); Oil freight
        NUC POWER; start Laser
        1590AD- start Mining Riv-Grass/Plains for Forests; RB ManufPlant
        LASER; start Flight!
        1600AD- FLIGHT (cancels Colossus); start Pottery (chg commodities?)
        (Trade dropped from 227 to 176)
        1610AD- Dip embassy English; Oil to Ur(8/Coal/Cop/Wool): 336g/b,nochg; Enth Bab: 5R,exch MobWar for POTTERY,sh maps,end; Dip embassy Babs
        start Radio
        1620AD- Oil freight!
        RADIO; start AdvFli
        1630AD- Gems to Ur(8/Coal/Cop/Wool): 336g/b,nochg
        Gems freight
        ADVANCED FLIGHT; start Rocketry
        1650AD- Worsh Ger: 1R,exch(Radio-no)AdvFli for COMMUNISM,sh maps,end
        ROCKETRY; start SpaFli!!!
        1660AD- Oil to Ur(same): 336g/b,nochg; Gems to Ur(same): 336g/b,nochg
        SPACE FLIGHT; start Plastics
        1680AD- PLASTICS; start Super
        1690AD- RB StockExch; chg T70S10L20 8t&WL
        1700AD- start Apollo, 2 trucks, RB 2000g (Oil&Gems freed!)
        1710AD- TENOCH size 25; Gems freight
        1720AD- TENOCH size 26; bribe Rom Dip 139g; Oil freight!
        1730AD- TENOCH size 27,+0F; disband 2 supported Eng
        1C:Prop
        1740AD- TENOCH size 28,-1F,chg T90S10L0 all Taxmen; Rom em: dem SpaFli(NO),end alliance,Settler in Germany returned
        2C:Fuel
        1750AD- bribe Rom Dip 141g (hey: Transport at Bab-land returned too!)
        3C:Prop
        1752AD- 4C:Fuel
        SUPERCONDUCTOR; start Esp
        1754: 5C: Prop
        1756: 6C: Fuel
        1758: 1S
        1760: 2S
        1762: 3S
        1764: 4S
        1766: 5S
        1768: 6S
        ESPIONAGE; start Fusion
        1770: 7S
        1772: 8S
        1774: 9S
        1776: 10S
        1778: 11S
        1780: 12S
        1782: 13S
        1784: 14S
        1786: 15S
        1788: 1M
        1790: 2M
        FUSION; start Stealth
        1792: 3M,LAUNCH: arrival 1807
        avoided contact, built Spies,Armor,Fighter
        1807 Landing AC
        Last edited by Elephant; November 3, 2003, 02:00.

        Comment


        • #49

          1.2. RULES
          You are allowed to settle one city. You are not allowed to settle more cities or to get cities through conquest or bribery. It is of course not allowed to access the cheat menu. It is also not allowed to reload a game to change anything that did not go as you wanted it to go. There is only one occasion where reloading is allowed which is explained in section 1.2.2 (advanced tribes).

          where does it say - upto launch?
          "Our words are backed by empty wine bottles! - SG(2)
          "One of our Scouse Gits is missing." - -Jrabbit

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by Straybow
            Well, after launching we can kick buttocks… no?
            1768 Superconductor, trade for Polytheism
            Why trading (which adds one to your tech total) instead of giving it away to your key civ? Unless you had no other choice but Polytheism and trading got it out of the way?
            I thought I could after launch. Thanks for the confirmation, Straybow! But I think I would have violated rules just to kick Barbarian Berlin. 3000 years of barbarism just had to come to an end in this once beautiful city.

            About the tech exchange: Elephant allready gave the answer.

            Zenon

            Comment


            • #51
              It´s good to see you back playing civ 2, Solo! And I think it´s time to congratulate you to the earliest landing. TimTheEnchanter and Elephant had very good games, too.


              Originally posted by solo
              Interesting games, and each one so much different, but still with most player landings clustered around 1800.
              Exactly! One more reason for Elephant to complete one of these nice charts.



              It might also be suitable for another EL game, if players vote to give that kind of game another go.


              please go ahead

              Zenon

              P.S: I think I could provide some interesting starts, too. BTW, is there any reason why not to take a start on a created map (other than the unwanted knowledge of the creator)?

              Comment


              • #52
                It's fun to be back among the Civ 2 faithful. I found something lacking in RoN and the RTS genre. I will post a new thread shortly for another EL game, but hope that Zenon would follow that with one of his own starts. As for using edited maps, it was done more often than not in Paul's OCC games, so I can't see any objection to using one.

                Comment


                • #53
                  I hate to buck the trend of these "blood-thirsty" OCC gamers, but I find myself agreeing with SG (MAJOR suprise!) that the time between launch and landing is not meant to be a release from the One City restriction. Certainly a lot of AI "retribution" can be permitted (I personally like to see how well I can preserve the AI's attitudes while adequately protecting my city), but the addition of extra cities changes the danger level of that in-between time. I have had at least two memorable deaths to overwhelming AI attack (well, in all honesty my defenses were a little weak) during that period. I think a valid OCC finish is the landing, not the launch. Otherwise we could be sending 15-1-1-1-1-1 ships off earlier and ignoring 30 in-between years...

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Elephant
                    I hate to buck the trend of these "blood-thirsty" OCC gamers, but I find myself agreeing with SG ... I think a valid OCC finish is the landing, not the launch. Otherwise we could be sending 15-1-1-1-1-1 ships off earlier and ignoring 30 in-between years...
                    I think Elephant "sticks the landing" with this comment.

                    Monk
                    so long and thanks for all the fish

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Ah elephant - to paraphrase Clint Eastwood, "Just because we agree on something doesn't mean I want to stick my tongue down your throat."

                      Even my unquenchable thirst for infidel blood knows that OCC is not the place to enjoy it

                      Stu
                      "Our words are backed by empty wine bottles! - SG(2)
                      "One of our Scouse Gits is missing." - -Jrabbit

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Well, if even the RAR Philosophy is begging for peace in this case I better give in!

                        No conquest after launch, then (unless, of cause, these bloody Barbarians take my trading partner again to spoil my game )

                        Zenon

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          No conquest after lunch!
                          I agree totally with this idea. Also no taking of cities whatsoever after lunch. Bribery's out too. It'd be easy to protect your city by buying another one close by and weathering the AI storm there, leaving your capital to see out the rest of the game peacefully. Once the launch has been made then you should be hurriedly buying up defenders to ensure you're still around to make that triumphant TV broadcast to your expectant citizens. :b

                          Now OCC conquest is another matter entirely.....

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by duke o' york

                            No conquest after lunch!
                            Bad Pun Alert!

                            Now OCC conquest is another matter entirely.....
                            I've only seen one or two decent OCC conquest games; for one thing, Restarts would have to be Off. I've done some city reduction myself in OCC, but it is tedious killing the only defender and waiting till the flag goes up to kill it again.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Up late trying to get the youngest to stay in bed...



                              EDIT: Grigor's stats updated (with some interpolation...)
                              Last edited by Elephant; November 21, 2003, 15:25.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Hmmm,

                                I have some room to improve -- looks like I'm weak in a number of areas -- foremost the earliest game.
                                Those with lower expectations face fewer disappointments

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X