The Sticky Mouse Senate - Succession Game

[Scouse Gits]

Master Nick - outstanding work!
STYOM - exactly - it is the lack of a cogent and coherent tech path that is the curse of all Succession Games - whenever you come to bat your intended tech path is always hindered either by the presence of a host of 'rubbish techs' or the inexplicable absence of a key prerequisite - but such is life. You might say One man's Pottery is another man's Electricity!

SG(2) - Look like this one will be just ripe for our Friday session * rubs hands in anticipation *

SG[1]

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Current Order:

2nd Round 12 Turns

SG(2)
SG[1]
El Civ
Julius
La Fayette
Messer Niccolò
Bloody Monk
STYOM

[Bloody Monk]

Bloody Monk retires to his Chapel to contemplate the vagaries of power. Probably will lose his lifetime pension over some decisions but the Republic is beginning to grow--to the music of the sixties band, Archie Bell and the Drells, doing the "Tighten Up". We are half way to Mono and the camels to build Mike's are making their way to the sacrificial altar, or soon will be.

Happiness is a problem for now. I wasted a lot on temples that will be needed later, but not so much now with Mike's Chapel so close. It is a painful lesson how easy it is to let the game play me rather than me play the game. Red faces caused panic for the Rookie. I would recommend camels over Settlers for now so that we can snap up WOW's and so the cities can get to three and celebrate a bit. And world trade!!

Log:
200 Changed Lux to 20% and moved workers to get food so that Sticky Mouse could celebrate. Moved workers, in other cities, off of grass and on to plains to slow food and thus, growth. First painful decision--move Toga closer to SM. Movement to the Cap will be quicker and another city can be squeezed in that delta, if desired. Demanded tribute--25g Babs, 150g Chin.
175 Celebration in SM!! Science boosted from 14 to 10 (mostly from Library). Start temple in SM (it's a Monk thing). Explorers find Indians. Give many techs, share maps, ally...science now 9 turns. Egyptian Sett at edge of map--next visit planned. With Science speeded up our geeks come up with Republic--point them at Horse on the path to Mono.
150 Rush temple in SM. Revolt...last chance to demand trib--50g from Chin. Moved miner off coal to irrigate SM tiles to facilitate continued celebrations as Rep adds pop.
125 Republic established (settings at 20-50-30 for 6-turn advances and 15g net). Sadly had to disband So. Senate's horse to keep the city from freaking out with two units afield. At this point I slipped and ordered a temple in Consul's. Traded tech with Indians for Horse and Myst. Science back to 8.
100 Chose Phil for the Geeks to work on (wish we had Poly already)
75 Build settlers and say goodby to Toga.
50 Build Shorter Toga garrisoned by warrior sent from Lucky many turns back. Get hut Nomad near Consul's and rush Temple there.
25 Egypt builds Great Wall; Chin changes to and builds Lighthouse (vet clads will take a bit more doing now)
1a 100g from hut
20 Monkfish founded with two whales and a fish. Rehome SM Settler to Sarzana to open up more food for the growing Cap. Phil--Poly--Mono
40 Nomad from hut. Deliver 4 camels to SM for MPE.
60 MPE completed in SM, set to build Mkt PL. Share Maps with everyone gift tech to Indians to get tech down to 7 turns.
80 Seafearing from hut. Rush temple at 'Spice'
100 get out ritual bowl to wash hands of this piece of work

[Bloody Monk]

Sorry I took so long to complete my turn--not used to the logging process. Typing was what I had secretaries for in the old days. Oh, well. I leave the Republic in surer hands. It is late so now I go to bed--no wait, that's been done.

[Scouse Gits]

Sounds good BM

SG[1]

[Messer Niccolò]

... yawn...
It's hard to work after the night session....
@ Bloody Monk, I built Library and not temple because we almost were Republic and for SSC purposes a library could be better (in the long run of course), otherwise I would probably have built a marketplace, but, at the end, the results are the same...
Poor Togatown, it was supposed to be the West harbor of the Republic... it doesn't matter, TogaHarbor will be settled in the next future
Good job everybody!

[Scouse Gits]

Messer Niccolò The Senate acclaim you as Despotic Director of the Universe Great work! Sticky Mouse looks like the Chelsea Flower Show

Our recent panic to build the Gardens has been a useful learning exercise. It proves what can be achieved with a determined approach to attain a goal… Messer Niccolò has shown us the way.

I seldom go directly from Despotism to Republic. Although Republic has only one more prerequisite tech than Monarchy this difference has taken its toll in our game. The unwanted early science from villages is always a problem and tempts me to think that huts should be opened before founding the capital - for the valuable NON units (especially if aiming for Republic) - only resuming this activity after the government change. This has to be balanced against the advanced tribes/NON settlers or the rare 100 gold which is like a lottery win! It's a great game that keeps us thinking so hard for so long Imagine the different position the Sticky Mouse Senate would be in if my horseman had found Pottery and not Masonry!

BM Now the Founding Father of the Republic Good work building MPE with impressive usage obtaining maps and gifting tech to the Indians to aid the science rate. I hope you enjoyed your first turns in a succession game.

Just a couple of observations. You didn't need the two entertainers in Sticky Mouse. The city won't riot without them and we lose no advantage by having red faces as the city cannot celebrate until we buy an aqueduct. We can't do this at present as we don't possess Construction …but two AI Civs do know this skill. This is a key tech as it's the gateway to size 12 cities and colosseums. Engineering is also available and that is half what's needed for Sanitation. The exchange of tech is important now for two reasons. Firstly, we wish to swap before we research Monotheism…we don't want a race for Mike's. Secondly, once an AI starts wonder building with a science we need they won't talk to us as their "great minds are too busy" with the wonder.

We have a good game going!

STYOM you are next…Good Luck!

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SG(2)

[Bloody Monk]

Master Nick

The Library was a great choice. My comments were more about where I was planning to go in the future--a sort of 'fire for effect' rather than being finely targeted. Could have done with better wording, for sure.

And the Shorter(to Sticky Mouse)Toga city is also a port. Of course we will need many port cities if we are to carry off a Republic Trade operation and not run afoul of the "multiple units afield" problem. That is why I chose not to build Oracle. We will need to catch Theology (and Bach's) quickly, I think, so it will expire to soon. I was actually thinking of a second port at the end of that river system when I burned down your city. I hope it was not a horrible misstep on my part.

[Bloody Monk]

Originally posted by Scouse Gits

BM Now the Founding Father of the Republic Good work building MPE with impressive usage obtaining maps and gifting tech to the Indians to aid the science rate. I hope you enjoyed your first turns in a succession game.

Just a couple of observations. You didn't need the two entertainers in Sticky Mouse. The city won't riot without them and we lose no advantage by having red faces as the city cannot celebrate until we buy an aqueduct. We can't do this at present as we don't possess Construction …but two AI Civs do know this skill. This is a key tech as it's the gateway to size 12 cities and colosseums. Engineering is also available and that is half what's needed for Sanitation. The exchange of tech is important now for two reasons. Firstly, we wish to swap before we research Monotheism…we don't want a race for Mike's. Secondly, once an AI starts wonder building with a science we need they won't talk to us as their "great minds are too busy" with the wonder.

We have a good game going!

STYOM you are next…Good Luck!

-----------------------------

SG(2)

Thanks for the observations SG(2). I completely missed that we were size eight!! I was hoping to irrigate one more square and so avoided the red faces. Need to eat something. All this thinking has depleted my blood sugar.

Excellent lesson, and well crafted, on Mono. Completely missed that too. I figured it was better to wait to trade for techs so as not to slow down getting Mono. But, again, you make an excellent point about the AI demanding your latest and best tech. I have, however, set it up so that we will have most of the camels for Mike's in place as soon as we discover Mono. So I don't think we would lose a race for the WOW--probably not, anyway. Still, why give them crooks. I conceed the point. It is disconcerting that I thought about all of the things you enumerated (except for your key point) and came up with the weaker position. Learn a lot with these games, we do, eh!!

That is partly what I was refering to earlier when I mentioned the game playing me. Curiously, I found it harder to keep the "Big Picture" in mind and too often became preoccupied with the immediate situation. Not exactly performance anxiety, but I was aware of some pressure. Still, it was fun.

[Scouse Gits]

BM It is very easy to let the game play you. SG[1] and I both agree that we play better in succession/comparison games when we must publish a log of our progress. There is a little more pressure but hopefully the adrenalin boosts performance.

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SG(2)

[Bloody Monk]

One last observation. I think the AI in this game is going to be pretty robust. Many times the AI is inert, it is so lame. These civs are laying down cities at a good pace. And first contact (love that phrase) was very prickly with several of them. They also seem to have a taste for the WOW's. When the Egyptians built the Great Wall, at least three other civs were also working on it. They all switched to Lighthouse and the Chins built it on the spot. The point is that SG(2)'s mention of a wonder race is well taken. Good luck, all!!!

[Scouse Gits]

Notes from the BeanCounter

More Gentle Critique

Just for fun, I pulled down the latest save and tried to 'improve' it by micromanagement.
The current state is: Taxes 2:3:5 yielding 25g + 57b (7 turns)
If you leave the tax rate unchanged you can achieve 27g + 64b (still 7 turns) + The Institute will celebrate and go to 5 two turns hence ...
Alternatively, if we move the tax rate to 2:2:6 the only problem is South Senate - this goes away if the Caravan is switched to a Temple and rushed for 33g and the result is 21g + 82b (5 turns)
Of course this all has a cost - and our total shield production has been reduced, but not much.

The real reason i pulled down the save was to see if the capture of Beijing was feasible - as you all know, after my pwetty fwowers I have a predilection for large bright lights - however, not yet seems to be the answer...

SG[1]

[Messer Niccolò]

Originally posted by Bloody Monk
They all switched to Lighthouse and the Chins built it on the spot. The point is that SG(2)'s mention of a wonder race is well taken. Good luck, all!!!

mmmh... I love chinese food ...
I vote for sending our mighty "We Love Chinese Food Expeditionary Force" to add that wonder to our "collection"...

[Messer Niccolò]

well, I meant, to add the Bejing's cooks to our Senatorial houses...

[Six Thousand Year Old Man]

Originally posted by Scouse Gits
Master Nick - outstanding work!
STYOM - exactly - it is the lack of a cogent and coherent tech path that is the curse of all Succession Games - whenever you come to bat your intended tech path is always hindered either by the presence of a host of 'rubbish techs' or the inexplicable absence of a key prerequisite - but such is life. You might say One man's Pottery is another man's Electricity!

SG(2) - Look like this one will be just ripe for our Friday session * rubs hands in anticipation *

SG[1]

In other words, I have today and Thursday to play. That seems eminently do-able

Save downloaded...

As to the other point, agreed... I try to avoid hut tipping before Monarchy. I'll be tempted to tip one, or two, looking for a horseman. If I get a horse, great... if I get a bad tech - that's it - stop tipping until Monarchy.

(I have a lot of memories of 20-turn research brought on by undisciplined tipping)

In this game, the problem was exacerbated by the extra tech we need for early Republic, plus the tech(s) from the Greeks... off path.

[Bloody Monk]

Re: Notes from the BeanCounter

Originally posted by Scouse Gits
More Gentle Critique

Just for fun, I pulled down the latest save and tried to 'improve' it by micromanagement.
The current state is: Taxes 2:3:5 yielding 25g + 57b (7 turns)
If you leave the tax rate unchanged you can achieve 27g + 64b (still 7 turns) + The Institute will celebrate and go to 5 two turns hence ...
Alternatively, if we move the tax rate to 2:2:6 the only problem is South Senate - this goes away if the Caravan is switched to a Temple and rushed for 33g and the result is 21g + 82b (5 turns)
Of course this all has a cost - and our total shield production has been reduced, but not much.

SG[1]

Well now; let's see...6 hours sleep and breakfast is about ready. The world looks pretty grand from here. That's kinda on topic because it probably explains why your last doesn't feel the least bit critical. Dang good point, rather. Everyone should take note of it, I think. As the game progresses we must be vigilant about checking on the optimal rates and elvi needed around our Republic.

But " 'splain to me sumthin, Lucy", as Ricky Ricardo used to say. I can't get The Institute to celebrate if Lux are moved to 20%. Maybe you didn't mean that both ideas would work in tandem. And Ides of M also revolts at 20%. Making an elvis there and moving workers in other cities a bit, I can achieve 5 turns...and that would, indeed, be a good thing.

Especially, with your previous suggestion to trade for missing techs, now, before we get Mono.

That will increase the beakers needed again, so this plan makes that easier. If I had thought of this, I would have done that. Good catch.