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**SlowThinker** · December 27, 2000, 19:34

Post2

There are old forgotten (but very helpful) threads in Apolyton and it is very tedious if you try to extract a concrete information (I am experienced well with dips/spies).
I think a big part of Apolyton could be managed the way I suggest hereafter and then there wouldn't be so large redundancy of information. A few (10, 20) threads of similar fashion would span all questions (answered or unanswered) about Civ2 facts. To arrange strategies would be harder, I think they should be discussed ordinarily.

This thread is a try to concentrate all wisdom about diplomats and spies. I included rules, facts and short tips only. I don't intend to collect strategies here.
If this try will be succesfull, other people could manage further scopes of Civ similar way.

There is my idea how to manage this thread:

All wisdom will be concentraced to the main (first) post.

You will
post any suggestions :

to add new wisdom (will be marked green),
to mark/unmark insecure or unsettled wisdom (will be marked red),
to put new questions that should be answered (will be marked blue),
remarks to mistakes, opacity and my weak english

and discuss them here.

I will
integrate your suggestions into the main post.

Please, clear your post if all its problems are definitively solved and integrated to the first post (you must to let at least one letter there.) I hope Ming will remove cleared posts from time to time. Keep world clean!
Help me: if you think I forgot to integrate one of your ideas then edit your post, delete ideas I included yet and write LOOK! in the beginning of post.
If MY post is assigned to you (I named you in the beginning), and you have read it and you think it may be cleared, let me know (by a new short post). I will clear post soon if there is no useful information for others.
I suggest to mark your posts by numbers (Post 5, Post 6...) for easier reference.
Previously, I thought I can remove posts in this thread. It is false: only Ming may delete posts.

Html is off in Civ2-strategy forum: That is the reason why I chose this forum.

[This message has been edited by SlowThinker (edited January 31, 2001).]

**SlowThinker** · December 27, 2000, 19:35

Post 3
List of my sources
Let me know if you know other interesting source of information related to dips/spies.

Civ2-Strategy: Poisoning and sabotaging
Civ2-Strategy: In response to the sabotage thing
Civ2-Strategy Bribing non-barb units
Scrolls of Ancient Wisdom (Winkler)
Civ2-Strategy To bribe or not to bribe
Archive Bribing cities - Apolyton Civilization Site Forums
Archive Can diplos survive attacks - Apolyton Civilization Site Forums
Archive Expelling diplos - Apolyton Civilization Site Forums
Archive Tips On Diplomacy - Apolyton Civilization Site Forums
Archive Finally a way to protect cities from bribing!
Archive Veteran diplomats - Apolyton Civilization Site Forums
Archive War in a diplo game... Is it worth it - Apolyton Civilization Site Forums
Archive bribe-proofing my cities - Apolyton Civilization Site Forums
Civ2-Strategy: Best use for a Diplomat-Spy
Civ2-Strategy: Early Diplomatic Warfare
Civ2-Strategy: city bribe question
Civ2-Strategy: Partisans
Civ2-Strategy: Poisoning (w-Spy)
Civ2-Strategy: Sabotaging SDI Defenses
Civ2-Strategy: Spies and City Walls
Civ2-Strategy: Spy questions
Civ2-Strategy: Spy-Dip question
Civ2-Strategy: Stealing techs
Civ2-Strategy: Stopping the cheapness! Inciting revolts
Civ2-Strategy: The AI can bribe a Democracy!
Civ2-Strategy: Using Diplomats Effectively
Civ2-Strategy: Vet Spys and Stealing Techs
[This message has been edited by SlowThinker (edited February 01, 2001).]

**SlowThinker** · December 27, 2000, 19:36

Post 4
Recent important updates

02/01/01
7.4 moved to 2.13-14
01/30/01
I removed old "new wisdom" highlights (green).
4.5-4.7 renumbered to 4.10-4.12
[This message has been edited by SlowThinker (edited April 15, 2001).]

**SlowThinker** · December 27, 2000, 19:37

Post 5
Keywords

level 1	{spy}
level 2	{bribing cities}{bribing units} {expel} {sabotage unit}{establish embassy}{investigate city}{steal technology}{industrial sabotage}{poison water supply}

See "The Great Library: a hierarchical structure" thread if you want to know more about keywords.

[This message has been edited by SlowThinker (edited April 16, 2001).]
[This message has been edited by SlowThinker (edited May 19, 2001).]

**debeest** · December 30, 2000, 19:16

POST 6

Note: There's no conflict between your summary and the Scrolls of Wisdom with regard to the veteran spy factor.

[This message has been edited by debeest (edited February 21, 2001).]

**Maelhavok** · December 31, 2000, 01:00

REMOVED
[This message has been edited by Maelhavok (edited May 16, 2001).]

**SlowThinker** · December 31, 2000, 01:42

removed
[This message has been edited by SlowThinker (edited May 19, 2001).]

**SlowThinker** · December 31, 2000, 11:29

Post 10
removed
[This message has been edited by SlowThinker (edited April 14, 2001).]

**SlowThinker** · January 10, 2001, 16:40

removed
[This message has been edited by SlowThinker (edited March 20, 2001).]

**La Fayette** · January 30, 2001, 10:58

Post 19

3.1 The multipliers for spy and vet spy don't apply to G. They apply to D (1,2*D for spy and 1,5*D for vet spy).
3.13 With no capital, I have several examples of Dmax different from 16 (I let you know if I find out why).
4.51 I have many examples of barb legion = 124g
12.11 Probability that vet spy+"gi

**La Fayette** · January 30, 2001, 12:42

Post 20
12.31 Attack "use her judgment" (or attack with a dip)
Any attack is a success.
The only difference between dips, spies and vet spies is the nummber of losses: 100% with dips, 50% with spies and 25% with vet spies.
They all use their judgment the same way: almost in accordance with the list of improvements in the city screen (with a slight random factor). This means that city walls are generally the last improvement attacked.
Hence, if there are n improvements inside the city, it is wise to attack with n+1 dips or spies to make sure that the walls go down.

12.32 Attack "give primary target"
a) Basic example: attack of city walls in a capital city by vet spies.
Any attack is independent from the previous one (like "heads and tails"). Probability of success p1=0,5.
If the attack was successful, your vet spy might be captured afterwards. Probability of escaping p2=0,5.
b) All other examples derive from that one (but the probabilities differ). Testing with larger samples would be necessary to make sure of the exact values.
c) Meanwhile, I suppose that:
the probability of escaping after successful attack is close to
p2=0,5 for vet spies
p2=0,25 for non vet spies;
the probability of success is close to
p1=0,5 for vet spies attacking walls in a capital city;
the probability of success is higher when attacking improvements other than walls, and non capital cities;
the probability of success is much lower when attacking with non vet spies.
d)Hence it is advisable to attack with numerous vet spies using this "give primary target" method.
e)With non vet spies, it is generally advisable to choose the "use her judgment" method (especially if there are few improvements inside the city).

------------------
aux bords mystérieux du monde occidental

**SlowThinker** · January 30, 2001, 15:00

Post 21
La Fayette,
3.1 I wanted to write GR (gold required to bribe), not G (gold of civ that is bribed). Thank you, it was a big mistake.
3.13 Could you e-mail me your saved game?
12.11 not finished yet?

I removed old "new wisdom" highlights (green).
[This message has been edited by SlowThinker (edited January 30, 2001).]

**SlowThinker** · February 21, 2001, 14:17

Post 22
removed
[This message has been edited by SlowThinker (edited April 14, 2001).]

**SlowThinker** · February 21, 2001, 18:45

Post 23
removed
[This message has been edited by SlowThinker (edited April 14, 2001).]

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