The greatest civilization of all

[popcornvendor]

um...... so how many of u carry around encyclopedias?

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Enjoy the war while you can, the peace will be terrible

[Action]

C'mon now, guys this is obvious. The U.S.A is the world's greatest civ due to a combination of factors.

1) Power. Military might. etc. Number one in history. Only the USSR stood a chance, but they lose out in every other factor. Sure we lost Vietnam (for political reasons), but otherwise undefeated.

2)Standard of living. Our standard of living while not the highest is very high.

3)Economy. Strongest in history.

4)Political system. Has been a stable representative republic for longer than anyone else.

5)Science. Won the race to the moon, built the manhattan project. Definately up there.

Now I know it is not "cool" to say this and you will have tons of little objections, such as how certain groups were opressed etc but most civs have similar problems. If you look at the facts it will be hard to deny that the U.S.A is number one, although hardly perfect.
[This message has been edited by Action (edited January 24, 2001).]

[weird god]

romans.....at least when i play them

chinese: they were never conquered and ruled vast lands in eastern asia for thousands of year. culture and inventions were the most developed until the late middle ages.

japanese: deto never got conquered. they had an old-fashioned feudalistic system until the late 19th century. within a few decades they boomed to a major power through adapting european ideas.

romans: they definetly took a major role in european history but had a luck of culture. if they weren´t neighbours of the "barbarian" tribes they would barely look so civilized.

arabs: i miss them in civ2. definetly a civilized through periods very liberal and innovative countries.

[johnmcd]

I would say the Italians in general, If we can credit them with the achievements of the Romans, and then the Renaissance then there is surely nobody that can hold a candle to them.

As for the USA.
1) Mightiest for all of ten years so far…and even then you can’t fight a war without worrying that someone might get hurt which leaves all those guns impotent. Even if you did fight you couldn’t win against any other nuclear power, relatively, you are one of the weakest mightest civs of all time.
2) Its all relative, standard of living is hard to measure with any historical accuracy. Anyway, there are people in the States that live in conditions that would not look too out of place in the third world.
3) For fifty years, with interruptions, not the same as the Romans with the strongest for hundreds of years without interruption.
4) Oh please. Two achievements that aren’t even that good. The USSR got to space first which is better than the moon and the Chinese got gunpowder which is better than the bomb. Your real achievements are things like electric lighting and, um, the phonograph. Look at the Scots, we do TV, Penicillin, Malaria vaccine, Telephone etc. On top of that we do some genuinely good civilising things like the first public education policy and I wouldn’t say we come in the top ten. Maybe in a hundred years time the states will have done enough to be the greatest ever, but at the moment the states are just starting, and to be honest its not that impressive a start, if they are aiming at civilisation.

[East Street Trader]

I have a regard for the aborigine's of Australia and for some of the N. American indian tribes.

They seem to have established really stable societies which had adapted harmoniously with their environment and in which individuals could flourish.

Plainly by the tests proposed in this thread (military might, invention, influence on others) they do not figure. But if the test were to be the creation of a happy and stable society I suspect they would rate high. Their religious thinking was certainly of a sophistication far in advance of any of the other civs championed here.

So, if by "most important" we can say "most to be emulated" I'll go for one of those.

[Action]

>1) Mightiest for all of ten years so far…and even then you can’t fight a war without worrying that someone might get hurt which leaves all those guns impotent. Even if you did fight you couldn’t win against any other nuclear power, relatively, you are one of the weakest mightest civs of all time.<

More like 50 years. Every since WW2 ended it's been USA and USSR neck and neck for #1 with no one (maybe China) close. Most powerful Civ in history.

>2) Its all relative, standard of living is hard to measure with any historical accuracy. Anyway, there are people in the States that live in conditions that would not look too out of place in the third world.<

That's why I did not say that USA is #1 in standard of living but they are high. This differentiates us from the USSR and the Ancient civs. Rome might have conquered more of the world, but where would you want to live USA right now, or in the Roman empire?? Technology aside.

>4) Oh please. Two achievements that aren’t even that good. The USSR got to space first which is better than the moon and the Chinese got gunpowder which is better than the bomb. Your real achievements are things like electric lighting and, um, the phonograph. Look at the Scots, we do TV, Penicillin, Malaria vaccine, Telephone etc. On top of that we do some genuinely good civilising things like the first public education policy and I wouldn’t say we come in the top ten.<

How about: the automobile, the airplane, the internet,
the first real computer, the telephone (Bell immigrated to the US before inventing it.), the binary circut, high resolution radar, I can go on.

Plus, our political freedom helps make it not even a close comparison with the Romans.

[Bereta_Eder]

quote: Originally posted by Action on 01-25-2001 10:27 AM Plus, our political freedom helps make it not even a close comparison with the Romans.

Can someone be a coommunist in USA or the FBI will take over or (worst still) is it considered «bad»?

P.S. This is not a «retaliation», this is a geniune question. I don't live in USA (which is only one of the MANY democratic countries in the world) and I don't know how things go there

[Chris 62]

quote: Originally posted by weird god on 01-24-2001 10:49 PM chinese: they were never conquered and ruled vast lands in eastern asia for thousands of year. culture and inventions were the most developed until the late middle ages.

Let me introduce you to the Mongols...

[Caesar the Glutton]

quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 on 01-25-2001 11:19 AM Can someone be a coommunist in USA or the FBI will take over or (worst still) is it considered «bad»? P.S. This is not a «retaliation», this is a geniune question. I don't live in USA (which is only one of the MANY democratic countries in the world) and I don't know how things go there

You can be a Communist here in the states. There is a Communist party in the US, but it's not very popular. It depends on what part of the country you live in, too. The Pacific Northwest and California are probably the most liberal areas, so being a Commie there would probably go unnoticed. I've been to the deep South and I'd say if there are Communists there, they probably don't tell anyone.

--Workers of the World, Unite!!!


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Nam si violandum est ius, regnandi gratia violandum est: aliis rebus pietatem colas

[Chris 62]

quote: Originally posted by popcornvendor on 01-24-2001 08:58 PM um...... so how many of u carry around encyclopedias?

Believe it or not, this all comes from the top of my head most of the time. I only check for dates and spelling, since I usally forget trivial things(like spelling)

[Chris 62]

quote: Originally posted by Caesar the Glutton on 01-25-2001 01:33 PM --Workers of the World, Unite!!!

You wouldn't happen to know anything about some missing "W" keys, would you

[Bereta_Eder]

quote: Originally posted by Caesar the Glutton on 01-25-2001 01:33 PM --Workers of the World, Unite!!!

Well, I was not wondering because of personal interest, I was just wondering!

[Caesar the Glutton]

quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 on 01-25-2001 01:41 PM Originally posted by Caesar the Glutton on 01-25-2001 01:33 PM --Workers of the World, Unite!!!

Well, I was not wondering because of personal interest, I was just wondering!