The "Barren 'Burbs" Succession Game

[Scouse Gits]

Originally posted by La Fayette 'White goods' = City improvements (if you wish to know why: ask the SGs)

In the UK the term White Goods refers to appliances which are often white in colour. (Freezers, Wahing Machines, Dishwashers etc.) The reason that the term is used in Civ is because the City Status Advisor F1 has all city improvements marked white, as opposed to Units which are orange and Wonders which appear in blue.

------------------

SG(2)

[sirsnuggles]

SG,
That makes sense.

Hey, I just posted a reply in the Samson Hut thread...I mentioned you, perhaps you can confirm what I said.

[-Jrabbit]

Welcome, sirsnuggles!

1. You should take a tour of the Great Library, which is located as a topped thread on the Civ2/Strategy forum. Tons of useful, obscure, and amusing articles there!

2. When clicking in the black, a number of useful bits of info can be gleaned. For instance, a square that is "in the pattern" to have a hut may be revealed to be water and thus not worth pursuing. For land areas, you can obtain the continent number. Same vs. new continent is potentially valuable info. Finally, you can also learn enemy city locations, because if there's a city on the square you click, the screen doesn't center.

Very few of us use this technique, as it can pretty tedious to use effectively. Is it a cheat? Well, there's open debate on this. My personal opinion is that it's much less of a cheat than ship-chaining, which offers transglobal transportation in a single turn, even in wooden boats.

If used to intelligently, black-clicks can help glean a couple bits of needed data (like trying to find a civ's last city when you know it's nearby), which IMHO is much more in the spirit of the game.

Looking forward to seeing your turnlogs appearing in these threads...

[atomant]

since when have you been humble rabbit man?

[-Jrabbit]

WELCOME BACK, ATOMANT!!!!!

Does this mean you now have a Civ-rready comp again?

[Old n Slow]

Sirsnuggles, I read your linked article & there are a few flaws with the set up of the equations IMHO. My first thought would be to characterize the banks & SE as an extra 50% each vs. 200% & 250%. Also the MKT & Banks have “happy” effects that could affect the global constraint of the luxury level. Given the global dual max equations of (max $$ & science) subject to three constraints (avoiding disorder, staying safe & cash on hand), evaluating city by city is partial equilibrium analysis -- second best work -- not to mention the potential effect regarding the cost of time. The article is great work for a high school freshman, but only so-so for a college student.

[sirsnuggles]

Actually, I wanted your opinion on his analysis of temples, colosseum's, and cathedrals (rather than mkt, bank, SE).

But his calculations concerning the latter (mkt) is correct.

He himself says, "Suppose we just want to make lots of money (and don't care about the luxury increasing effects)", so he is admitting to ignoring the luxury effects. Besides, he doesn't say anything about not building these improvements, instead, he demonstrates that these improvements (without regard to the luxury happiness effects) are beneficial.

As to the use of 1.5, 2, and 2.5, he is actually correct. It is a misconception that each improvement increases the previous improvement by an additional 50%. The truth about these modifiers is that each improvement increases the ORIGINAL BASE figure (without improvements) by 50, 100, and 150 (represented mathematically by 150, 200, and 250).

An example:
Let's say a city is producing a base of 4 gold, and we add improvements
market: 4*1.5=6
bank: 4*2.0=8 (NOT 6*1.5=9)
SE: 4*2.5=10 (NOT 9*1.5=13)

I've tested this to prove that it's correct. It works the same for factories too.

His point about cathedrals, however, is that they are not cost effective to build. Especially if you have banks and SE's that give you the necessary happiness through luxury anyway.

Perhaps we could ask Ming to turn this into its own thread, since we don't want to hijack the barren burbs game? I'd like to hear the opinion of the larger civ2 community anyway. It'd be interesting.

[atomant]

I think let snuggles play for me I need to set up and reinstall civ again, all bow to the mighty god civ...

gie me till tuesday wednesday next week and we can rock....

And it is good to be back connected to the ether again..

[La Fayette]

Take your time Atomant.
We are happy to see you back and already able to read us

[Six Thousand Year Old Man]

I'm back, briefly, anyway.

Lots of action in this thread but no turns played

1. sirsnuggles, you're in. Go ahead and play, since Bob_Smurf hasn't and nobody else has stepped up to the plate. If you are playing, please post that you are doing so, so that no-one else starts to play (succession game etiquette).

2. Alternately, if sirsnuggles can't play, could one of SCG/La Fayette/atomant post the intention to play and play, please.

3. Everyone else, quit threadjacking Good explanations, tho

[sirsnuggles]

Well thank you Six! I'd love to play. I'll go reread the multidinous rules and try hard not to break all of them...er...to break all but one...er, to break one but all...er, to break only one...er, maybe I'm gettin' confused with the silly rules thread I read last night.

Gosh, I'll just have to go reread this entire thread!

[sirsnuggles]

Oh, okay. I got it guys. Just no building of settlers or engineers. I love this game, perhaps I can dig us a deeper hole

[-Jrabbit]

Good luck. This is a tough one...

[sirsnuggles]

Here's the save. The book I wrote is coming up next.

[sirsnuggles]

1765: SirSnuggles named Steward of the Republic of Roadless Fools. His first act is to enact a coup; nation thrown into chaos. Slogan: Leave perplexing things like government and resource distribution to the capable hands of a benevolent Steward—He knows best!

His knowledge even avoided an annoying period of anarchy.

Steward forms the People’s Republic of Roadless Fools. Steward aggressively seeks out the worlds’ greatest scientists; 19 hired throughout the empire’s cities. Steward issues declaration that all trade routes must lead to Zimbabwe. Now that the plaintive voices of democracy have been muzzled, mass exploration recommences. Tax is now at +9, and science at 9 turns.

Yikes, the Steward sees that one of his foreign emissaries is encircled by barbarians with the mere protection of a wounded horsemen. Surely, this means certain death.

Foreign affairs report:
To the southern extremity lies the Republic of the Zulu’s. Hostile, peace, 1303 gold. 15 Cities. Researching Gunpowder. The Zulu’s speak rumors about the existence of a Chinese civilization (who obviously didn’t bother teaching the Zulu’s gunpowder!)

Where are the French that I’ve heard so much about?

Domestic Report
Cities: 28
Population: 4,520,000 (4th)
Treasury: 217
And a bunch of other useless minutia

1766: Speak of the devil, Chinese bestow gunpowder upon the aggressive Zulu’s (oh wonderful). The inevitable occurs: diplomat and guard hewn by barbarian hordes.

Great Zulu city of Hlobane (12) discovered. Steward amends previous declaration, “All trade routes must lead to Zimbabwe…although Hlobane’s okay too.”

1768: Spanish capital moved to Pamplona. The Steward’s new regime reports “turniel” profit of 10 gold, 9 turns to tech. 30/60/10.

1770: French capital moved to Grenoble. Spanish capital moved to Malaga? What the?! What was wrong with Pamplona? Steward declares Spain to possess the worst city planners, orders moratorium on hiring scientists from Spain. Scientists discover Steam Engine! Consequently, Leo tinkers in his shop and creates upgrades (pronounces Arnold obsolete); as a result, the elephant farming industry is ruined in the wake of zealous horse-riders. Caravel’s reworked into Galleons. Steward faces choice of Sanitation or Gunpowder. Knowing that Gunpowder can be obtained from the Zulu’s, and coupled with his weariness of the stench from his chamber pot, the Steward settles upon Sanitation.

French outpost of Rouen (5) discovered. France seems to be located to the East of Zululand. Mall-o-rama University begins offering courses in geo-political science (with the hopes of establishing relations with France).

1772: Malaga still not right, Spanish capital moved to Grenada. Russian capital moved somewhere. Pliny names Roadless fools 2nd largest Nation, Zulu’s 3rd, French 5th.

Salt caravan from Free Parking arrives in Zimbabwe, garnering 500 gold, +6 trade route.
Coal caravan (not demanded) from Beachside, garnering 226 gold, +6 trade route.
Poitiers (2) discovered just across the lake from Dijon.

1774: Indians about to complete Eiffel Tower. French lodge complaint concerning encroachment. Zulu’s discover trade.

Tax rate now: 40/60, +15, 8 turns.

Ooh, ooh, hut sighted on the coast of an unsettled island. Must explore…wandering nomads join our nation!

1776: Calcutta builds Eiffel. Russian capital moved to Sevastopol. Spanish move to Valencia (shmucks).

Steward discovers Sanitation, begins work on Railroad.
Boardwalk founded.

Salt caravan from Oxford arrives in Hlobane, garnering 276 gold, +3 trade route.
Besancon (4) discovered.
Nomads discovered west of Deerfield. Plan to found city of Park Place at 64,78.

1778: French move capital to Amiens. Mad again about encroachment. Spanish move again, this time to Cordoba.
Rhodes builds library, begins work on sewer system.
Crusaders found.
Plainsville copper caravan reaches Zimbabwe, garnering 364 gold, +5 trade route.
Highway Robbery cloth caravan reaches Zimbabwe, garnering 182 gold, +5 trade route.
Trireme Cove salt caravan reaches Zimbabwe, garnering 138 gold, +5 trade route.

1780: Russian capital moved to Moscow. Spanish capital not moved? Steward’s regime discovers Railroad! Seeks understanding of Industrialization (transports). French perform some act of espionage (not sure what), prompting the Steward to DECLARE WAR just for the heck of it.

Sewer system rush bought in Rhodes (cost 208 out of 2000 gold), making way for Darwin’s Voyage.

Plainsville destroys French catapult. Chartres discovered.

Oxford cloth caravan reaches Zimbabwe, garnering 123 gold, +5 trade route (better than the +3 it got from Hlobane).
Freaky Finds gems caravan reaches Zimbabwe, garnering 160 gold, +5 trade route.

1782: Chartres destroys knights. French explorer slain near Plainsville.

1784: French move capital to Grenoble. Zulu’s develop leadership, complain about encroachment. French slay University of Mall-o-rama diplomat graduate. French city of Rouen establishes trade route with Blandville (+1 trade).

French defeat crusader outside of Plainsville, lay siege to city.

1786: Plainsville survives multiple assaults by French horsemen.
French horsemen defeated upon the plains of Mall-o-rama.

1788: Indians woo famed financier Adam Smith.
Scouts report French military units closing in on Plainsville.
French horsemen defeated upon the plains of Dijon.

1790: Industrialization discovered, Da Vinci refits galleons as transports. Spurred by the Zulu’s continued refusal to exchange technologies, the Steward commences inquiries into developing a league of nations.

Zulu emissary demands 750 (out 1963) gold in reparations. The Steward scoffs at the backwater Zulu’s. Zulu’s DECLARE WAR!

Highway Robbery silver caravan reaches Zimbabwe, garnering 304 gold, +5 trade route.
The Institute establishes silk trade route with Zimbabwe, garnering 175 gold, +5 trade route.
Highway Robbery gems caravan (undemanded) reaches Zimbabwe, garnering 122 gold, +5 trade route.
Plainsville coal caravan (undemanded) reaches Zimbabwe, garnering 122 gold, +5 trade route.

Barbarian elephant struck down to the west of Bristol. The Hero of Plainsville (rookie Crusader) smites besieging French catapults to the southwest and to the south. More French units swarming, however, so the Hero must remain vigilant. Reports state Henry V sonnet read before battle.

Nomads discovered far to the east! Luxury Tax, built by an advanced indigenous people, assimilated into the empire in the far northeast.

1792: As if things could get worse for Plainsville, peasants to the northeast take advantage of the French war by staging a massive revolt.

Food caravans finally reach Rhodes with the intention of helping Darwin’s scientific research.
The Hero of Plainsville strikes down French archer unit (kill count now at 3).

Undemanded caravan reaches Zimbabwe from BB: 164 gold, +5 trade route.

1794: Zulu’s develop Physics. French horsemen impale themselves upon the spikes of beleaguered Plainsville.

The Steward discovers Communism plans construction of some sort of League of Nations. The Empires cities place competing bids for the building rights. The Steward desires faster emissaries with greater abilities, and thus commands his professors to develop the methods.

Three undemanded caravans reach Zimbabwe:
FF: 160 gold, +5 trade route.
Manchester: 64 gold, +5 trade route.
Thunderdome: 88 gold, +5 trade route.

Explorers find an advanced city to the far western borders of the Empire. The new addition, Suburbia (4), is already a leading city in the Empire with a granary, temple, marketplace, and library.

Hut=100 gold.
Hut=100 gold

Bristol suddenly appears to be surrounded by great barbarian hordes, yet one elephant is slain by the local defenders.

Indian civilization found just slightly east of Luxury Tax. President Gandhi gladly accepts the charitable gift of railroad presented by the magnanimous Steward. A peace treaty is signed, maps shared, and with a second gift of Industrialization an ALLIANCE is cemented!

Our new allies possess 14 cities, two of which are considered amongst the great cities of the world. They are still wooing famed financier Adam Smith, however, and are loath to exchange knowledge until negotiations are completed with him. Our Indian allies further reveal the existence of several Russian cities to the southeast end of their realm, on a continent that the Russians may well share with several of our own cities. Additionally, far to the east of the Indian realm exists the Spanish city of Madrid, which most certainly shares a continent with our Suburbia and Deerfield and yet to exist Park Place.

The great Steward (even if he says so himself), suddenly resigns citing health reasons. He glances over his Empire, and smiles with satisfaction. One last act remains to complete his reign: to the wonder of the world he personally assists DARWIN in completing his studies (costing 736 gold). The Steward, unable to fulfill the full vision of his dreams, calls upon his successor to construct a meeting place for the nations. Under the Steward’s regime, that is, the People’s Republic, technologies poured in boundlessly, cities were founded, commerce fostered, wars fought, alliances formed, and wonders built. He declares to his people, “We are the Roadless fools: Our power mighty, our reputation spotless, our wealth staggering, and our greatness undisputed.”

Tax Report: 40/60/0 +33 gold/turn, & 7 turns/discovery.

Foreign affairs report:
Allied with India. At war with France and Zululand.

Domestic Report:
Cities: 31, an 11% increase.
Population: 5,190,000 (4th), a 15% increase.
Treasury: 2344, a 980% increase.
And a bunch of other useless minutia.

Notes to successor: Have fun! You’ve inherited a great Empire. You should have no problem building whatever Wonder you want. You possess the world’s greatest merchant marine. With your wealth, your enemies should be easy to bribe, thereby gaining gunpowder and other military techs. I was planning to build Park Place at 64,78 (I like the gold, wheat, and fish resources there…well actually just the gold and wheat), and irrigated and roaded the wheat in preparation, but you will possess the ultimate say over whether it shall one day exist.

Well, it should be easy, and entertaining from here. Enjoy the wars, I largely ignored them, and simply transported several dips to their shores. Yet, whoever succeeds me may want to wait until espionage is discovered in several turns (that way you may reuse the upgraded spies).