FIRAXIS: Now a 'Fluff' developer?

[Adm.Naismith]

Re: Efect of Brians departure

Originally posted by Jeje2
I now do think that Civ3 was done whitout a heart and passion that it would have needed.

And I was thinking about Brians departure as a reason, when I remembered that after his departure FIRAXIS said that now new talents had the opportunity to stand up and make - well obviously nobody did or the shoes were too big.

Well, I don't know any of the team member, so I don't want to minimize their efforts.

They probably suffered so much pressure and had to fit shoes that someone forced to them (BTW, I think that Brian didn't left without some disagreement about the Civ III target and project limits).

That said, I'm only complaining to the leaders, because they must take the guilt for the resulting Civ III. They are payed to lead the company, aren't they?

They are in a mixed status, because they must be succesful on company target (mostly money, you know ), but have to manage customers opinion, too.

IMHO, they half failed on the last point (I can't judge for the former), but let's face it: as Yin stated they are probably repositioning the company on a different customer base. They lost some of us (also disappointed players not on this forum, you know) but take some "fresh blood" with plenty of enthusiasts that love the game AS IS, bugged and unbalanced.

I can live with this, but sure it is a pity to have lost my preferred game developer. Time to move, I suppose.

[Jeje2]

Re: Re: Efect of Brians departure

Adm.Naismith

Yes you may have right.
It sure can be wrong to blame the developpers only.

Originally posted by Adm.Naismith
I can live with this, but sure it is a pity to have lost my preferred game developer. Time to move, I suppose.

Yeah, the brain says that it should be time to move on but the heart...
(After all these excellent games from Sid (&Brian) & Co. it just cann't belive all they do in the future is bad.)

Well, let's hope the game after Sim Golf will be something VERY GOOD.
(Now I'll wait for EU2 (and MoO3))

[DaShi]

Well, I'm quite happy that I haven't bought the game, and I have no plans of purchasing it in the future. Of course, I expected this from Firaxis and, wisely, waited to see other people's responses to the game. Frankly, I don't trust Firaxis to actually make 'fun' games, only profitable ones.

Yin, you are right about Gettysberg and SMAC. They were serious games. I do believe that the developers did have passion for those games (though not Sid). Of course, Firaxis was a young company and SMAC would make or break them. They had to make it popular, as can be seen by many attempts to connect it with CivII. They did put a lot of work into it, and listened to many player suggestions. However, it was a buggy game, and Firaxis' primary flaw was that they responded horribly to it. They avoided responsibility for their mistakes and eventually lashed out at the gaming community (Why Jeff Morris is still an employee there today baffles me.). This created a rift between them and the gaming community. I believe that Firaxis saw many of us as enemies, trying to undermine their 'art' because we were greedy, jealous, little preteens. So they tuned out the community as much as they could (posting occasionally on Apolyton more as publicity stunts than any desire to give the fans a 'fun' game). They were pissed and handled it poorly. In short, the 'SMAC disaster' scarred Firaxis more than it did the gamers preventing them making 'fun' games that fans would praise.

Perhaps Firaxis' initial efforts were to create 'fun' games, but now they simply want to make profitable games. I beleive that Brian left partially because he saw this trend had arrived.

What about the fans who wanted CivIII to be as revolutionary as Civ or CivII?

Firstly, you never should have sucked up to Firaxis. They didn't care anyway. Sucking up only showed them that they had you in their pocket. What should you have done? Do what Yin did. Give them hell. Tell them that you are not going accept a crappy game. Speak your mind. They're not going to make the game worse because people are already complaining its bad. They know now that they can make make crap and get away with it (SimGolf). Gamespot's not going to it is bad. Their commercials certainly aren't. Hell, if it wasn't for this forum, I might have actually bought the game.

In reality, there is nothing you can do to make CivIII better. Firaxis has shown that it doesn't care about its loyal fans. I doubt they ever will. They don't even host their own forums!!!

Actually, there is one thing that you can do. Excerise your right as a consumer to not buy their games. You're not going to get a worthy CivIII anyway. Buy other games. EUII and MoO3. Let Firaxis develop whatever they want. They've given up on you long ago, return the favor.

[yin26]

Well, guys, it seems somewhere in all this we want to believe that Firaxis can still make awesome games. When their first game out of the gate was Gettysburg, I *really* thought we were seeing the creation of the best company in strategy gaming!

But they just lost focus after that. I have gone on at great lengths since SMAC arguing that their 'doubling of employees and office space' was not something to be proud of.

It would be the kiss of death, I said. Stay a small and focussed group, I pleaded. But with Gettysburg and SMAC making more money than they anticipated, they become another Trilobyte (or are on their way).

Civ3 could have been the biggest came to come in 5 years. Instead, it's barely passable.

[VetLegion]

DaShi, how can you bash the game without even playing it!? Man, that really gives strength to your arguments

[VetLegion]

Adm. Naismith I mostly agree with you, since civ3 (unpatched) is very difficult to play for me. I had high hopes but not high expectations, so I am not really disapointed. I agree about different market goals, clearly they wanted to attract new people.

one question, why need 'preffered game developer'? great company can make lousy game and lousy company can make a gem. does that mean you would buy everything from them? just curious

[DaShi]

Originally posted by VetLegion
DaShi, how can you bash the game without even playing it!? Man, that really gives strength to your arguments

Probably, since my argument is why I won't buy it.

[Hoek]

I think that Amn., Yin, and Techumseh are all correct here.

It is telling that Firaxis is a ghost at the Apolyton/Community forum. Their lack of responsiveness is a clear sign of corporate mentality. Those of us who like Civ 2 so much, and were duly impressed by SMAC were playing games run by a small company that was genuinely interested in the games they made and had alot to gain by listening to the community and indeed fostering a community. Why have "brand loyalty" to Firaxis? Well, because some wanted to support people guys who have a track record of good games. That time is over, and they have betrayed so many loyal fans and ignored the community and have become any other company. It is really sad because there was so much potential for Civ 3, and many in the community pinned alot of hopes on Firaxis. They are no longer a company that likes to make games, they are a company that likes to make money. This nonsense about the German translation project shows Infogrames' and Firaxis' contempt for the community. Oh well. Just another story of corporate insensitivity.

[Adm.Naismith]

Originally posted by VetLegion
one question, why need 'preffered game developer'? great company can make lousy game and lousy company can make a gem. does that mean you would buy everything from them? just curious

Now you are asking for me to jump on the soapbox an speak for my 15 minutes as a professor, aren't you?

Well, as many others I'm a man who like to keep with things I enjoy: if an author writes a good book I'll give her/him a sure chance with his/her next effort. Ditto with a director and a good cast for a film, etc.

I'm not a blind lover of sequels, but I usually buy my bit of them

Until they seriusly disappoint me, of course.

Of course a sequel have to prove itself better of its predecessor, at least to justify the effort and the cost, and to keep up with technical advance: you want the next Star Wars II Attack of the clones to have better Special Effects than Phantom Menace, don't you?

Now, I loved Railroad Tycoon, I was surprised and excited by Civ revolution, I liked a lot Civ II, I enjoyed SMAC but with some bad taste left at the end...

Can you see the trend? So do I.

And of course I played some others (new) games, but not so much, because of my reduced spare time and my age that's no more the greenest around here. I hope your curiosity is cleared now