Why was this allowed to continue?

[Imran Siddiqui]

The rape thing is obviously unacceptable and the fact that you attack the person who denounces it shows your immaturity.

If you read this thread (obviously you didn't) I expressed anger that Chris decided to blame the moderators for the thread continuing to exist. Thinking either a)They are on all the time and b)They check every thread. However, he kept whining and whining that the mods should have closed it (they should have known). And then it comes out, he didn't even send a complaint email out!!!

What a dirty little whiner...

[MBloomIII]

Originally posted by MarkG
1) it was closed in the end, wasnt it?
2) did you report it to the moderators? they cant be online all the time

I think the huddled masses were hoping for a response more along the lines of, "Oops. You're right. This thread should have never been allowed to linger for as long as it did. However, no one ever alerted us as to the contents so the Mods did not know the true topic at hand. Perhaps if you had let us know earlier we could have taken steps to shut the thread down. It is virtually impossible for the Mods to monitor every post and we rely on our members to point out potential problems."

Chris was/is (for good reason) very upset about this thread. The quoted response above from MarkG shows an amazing lack of PR skills from a owner of a site to a registered member. MarkG, perhaps a little empathy on your behalf towards an upset member may have been a better response. As an owner and moderator you shouldn't be so quick to get defensive when a member is blowing off steam.

Note to Imran: I like and respect the job you do here, but in this case you are just plain WRONG in your response and continued defense of your position.

[MBloomIII]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

The rape thing is obviously unacceptable and the fact that you attack the person who denounces it shows your immaturity.

If you read this thread (obviously you didn't) I expressed anger that Chris decided to blame the moderators for the thread continuing to exist. Thinking either a)They are on all the time and b)They check every thread. However, he kept whining and whining that the mods should have closed it (they should have known). And then it comes out, he didn't even send a complaint email out!!!

What a dirty little whiner...

I didn't read this until after I posted above.

Chris' continued agitation stems more from the pendantic response of MarkG clinging to some silly defense rather than his overall dissatisfaction with the Mods in general. (If I am reading this right.) You backing up MarkG's trite response only added fuel to the fire.

[Ming]

Originally posted by MBloomIII
The quoted response above from MarkG shows an amazing lack of PR skills from a owner of a site to a registered member. MarkG, perhaps a little empathy on your behalf towards an upset member may have been a better response. As an owner and moderator you shouldn't be so quick to get defensive when a member is blowing off steam.

Maybe a little empathy for somebody who works his brains out to provide people a place to talk and discuss gaming strategy is in order too. People are quick to complain about anything and everything to MarkG. The man is one of the owners of this site. It is his hobby, not his profession. The money that comes in goes right back into the site to make it better for people like you. If you want to play the blame game and insult people... insult the mods. It's our job to catch that kind of crap. We didn't... We also have lives and don't spend 24 hours a day reading every word typed in the off topic forums. Please "forgive" us our mistake in not catching it faster. But then again, if we had, I'm sure you would probably be the first to complain about freedom of speech...
If I sound angry... you bet. as much as you or others (myself included "ONCE" I saw it) might have been disturbed about the thread... I feel the same way about this thread. Again, don't blame and insult somebody who tries his best for you guys... blame and insult the mods if that is your desire. You should all get in line to thank MarkG and DanQ for even continuing to put in the time and effort to support this site... especially with all the grief they get.

[Imran Siddiqui]

*clap, clap*

(Here comes the 'company man' insult again, not that I even consider it an insult... Apolyton is a pretty good psedo-company to work for. )

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

The rape thing is obviously unacceptable and the fact that you attack the person who denounces it shows your immaturity.

If you read this thread (obviously you didn't) I expressed anger that Chris decided to blame the moderators for the thread continuing to exist. Thinking either a)They are on all the time and b)They check every thread. However, he kept whining and whining that the mods should have closed it (they should have known). And then it comes out, he didn't even send a complaint email out!!!

What a dirty little whiner...

You are arguing over a technicality, just admit you are wrong.

[rah]

Naw, I'm waiting for a repeat variation of the PR answer.

Maybe the people whining about PR should practice it.

As each concern is answered they will just move onto something else.



RAH

I'd kill myself if I had to read every word that a lot of the know it alls posted.

Great site. Keep it up. Don't let a few bad whiners get you down.

[Imran Siddiqui]

How am I wrong? If anything Chris is wrong! Yelling at the mods for not closing the thread while not even hiting the complain email? What nerve!

[MBloomIII]

Originally posted by Ming


Maybe a little empathy for somebody who works his brains out to provide people a place to talk and discuss gaming strategy is in order too. People are quick to complain about anything and everything to MarkG. The man is one of the owners of this site. It is his hobby, not his profession.

As an owner of a site Mark and Dan have to be aware that their actions and decisions are open to criticism from the membership. I happen to think they do a wonderful job and at no time have I ever critisized their site. My comment that as a owner AND moderator addresses this. If MarkG was simply the owner and did not actively participate as a moderator he could very easily pass off responsibilty to you, MtG, and the other Mods.

The money that comes in goes right back into the site to make it better for people like you.

What does this have to do with anything I said?

If you want to play the blame game and insult people... insult the mods. It's our job to catch that kind of crap. We didn't... We also have lives and don't spend 24 hours a day reading every word typed in the off topic forums. Please "forgive" us our mistake in not catching it faster.

Did you read my thread? That is exactly what I said. All I'm saying is that perhaps had MarkG responded with what you just stated, Chris may have been somewhat appeased.

But then again, if we had, I'm sure you would probably be the first to complain about freedom of speech...

Are you addressing this to me or Chris? I've never complained about the Mods here. It is one of the reasons I like this place. I am, however, complaining about the owners response to a registered member.

If I sound angry... you bet. as much as you or others (myself included "ONCE" I saw it) might have been disturbed about the thread... I feel the same way about this thread. Again, don't blame and insult somebody who tries his best for you guys... blame and insult the mods if that is your desire. You should all get in line to thank MarkG and DanQ for evening continuing to put in the time and effort to support this site.

Here, let me be the first in line.

I think Mark and Dan do a great job with the Apolyton site and I thank you for the wonderful job you do.

MarkG, sometimes I think you are too quick to take offensive when people post criticism.

[MBloomIII]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
How am I wrong? If anything Chris is wrong! Yelling at the mods for not closing the thread while not even hiting the complain email? What nerve!

I don't know. Perhaps I feel that the ownership should be responsive to the memership. Chris was venting over something he felt VERY strongly about. MarkG was too quick to take offense and not realise the strong emotion involved. Your involvement served no clear purpose.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
How am I wrong? If anything Chris is wrong! Yelling at the mods for not closing the thread while not even hiting the complain email? What nerve!

Oh yeah, what a nerve

Is that the only way to get their attention?

[MBloomIII]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
*Apolyton is a pretty good psedo-company to work for. )

From what I hear, the pay, benefits, and working conditions are all top notch.

[Chris 62]

First off, lets address things in order:

MBloom is right on the money, it was Mark's pedantic answer, coupled with the assine posts in the original and others, that brought this out further and further.

Next, lets talk to Ming:
I'm fully aware of how tough it is to run the site, but don't try to ply the overworked angle to far. We all appreciate the work Mark and Dan do, but by the same token, we expect them to abide and uphold the rules they themselves laid out.
And I won't blame you, as I am aware that you have been very busy lately, and I know you have girls yourself, so no, I don't think your an insensitive clod. I also know that MTG has been busting him gut at work, doing 14 hour days, and can't be here all the time. But we still have another mod, the one who closed it. MLeonard. The fact is, I didn't even know about that thread untill someone else (Drake) messaged me at work about it. At that point, it had been on the first page for 20 hours or so, and you say nobody thought to look at a thread titled "I am a Pig" with 2 pages of responces?
If you notice Ming, I also put this here, not in the OT, where it belongs.
Now, for more adventures of "Company man":

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

The rape thing is obviously unacceptable and the fact that you attack the person who denounces it shows your immaturity.

If you read this thread (obviously you didn't) I expressed anger that Chris decided to blame the moderators for the thread continuing to exist. Thinking either a)They are on all the time and b)They check every thread. However, he kept whining and whining that the mods should have closed it (they should have known). And then it comes out, he didn't even send a complaint email out!!!

But what you didn't know, but I did, is that there was nobody to send it to! I knew the status of Ming and MTG, and it was the middle of the night in Greece, Dan is at work, and MLeonard was not on-line. The fact that this was not always the case is the point.
Do we moderate the site or do they?
They do, so stop the "company man" act.

What a dirty little whiner...

Company man.

Here comes the 'company man' insult again, not that I even consider it an insult... Apolyton is a pretty good psedo-company to work for. )

[unneccesary extra insult] Company man. [/unneccesary extra insult]

Now, back for more comments.

MBloom is very right about what got me wound up, it was two fold:
The callous and insensitive comments by some posters.
The lack of interest by the site owner.

I think it speaks volumes about the priorities of some people, that nonsense is given high priority, and something like this is given a "well it closed now, isn't it?" kind of answer.

Fact is, I don't care if people don't like this, maybe next time they will get off there ass and speak up instead of saying "it's just a troll", or "did you report it" and other assorted bullsh1t.

[Ming]

OK MBloom... forgive my earlier tirade.

I just get pissed when people jump all over MarkG when in my opinion, it is not deserved. Sure, he defends his staff. This site takes a lot of work to maintain. While MarkG and DanQ do most of the work, they count on their volunteers to help. They don't pay us, and we don't get anything but fancy titles... and we all put in HOURS and HOURS of our free time to help. Most of us do it because we respect the hard work they have put in the site, and we want to help to make sure they continue to keep OUR COMMUNITY alive. I salute MarkG for supporting us. He appreciates our help, and it shows his "honor" in supporting our efforts.

Moderating these forums isn't a black and white issue. As can be seen with two threads that were similar in nature...

Civnations evolution thread, and the Pig thread. Both threads dealt with disturbing subjects. The Pig thread (in my opinion once I saw it) should have been closed quicker. Yet if you read through the thread and this thread, it is obvious that some didn't feel that way. Some felt it was just a troll like many other troll threads and just laughed at all the responses... while I disagree, there was indeed a difference of opinion. Once a mod/owner was made aware of it... it was closed, and the person responsible was restricted. And what happened, people complain that it wasn't closed quick enough.

Civnations thread, while it was about evolution, quickly turned into a anti gay thread...
He used derogatory and insulting terms... and a complaint was registered. The complaint was received, and a warning was issued... within seconds he continued his actions... he was then restricted. And what happened, people complained that he was restricted. Somebody even complained when we shut down the DL civnation created to continue the discussion.... and brought up the typical free speech complaints.

We are damned if we do... and damned if we don't...

So if you hear some frustration here... you are correct. We can't please everybody, yet we still try to.

So if you want a whipping boy on this issue... blame me. I didn't see the thread until after the fact. Insult me... blame me... curse me... fine. But leave the owners of the site out of it. Let's not make them think a simple solution would be to close down the OTF and stick to just gaming topics. This would be lesser place if they did!

[drake]

Well this thread would probably still be floating around if I hadn't said anything to chris. I'm really glad I did too. It would have been wrong for it to have been ignored. It deserved the communities attention.

All I ever said was that the mod's "trouble radar", wasn't on that day for some reason. Why? Perhaps it is because the radar usually only homes in on threads like "watch dookie pop a pimple on his ass" rather than a more serious thread, like this pig thread.

Anyway, back to business as usual.

btw:

Mbloom knows what he's talking about