Lancer on Banning - What Comes Around...

[Narck]

Hey Legman, it's over and done with now. No need to insult Ming. Sure, he could have closed down the thread sooner. But then again, all those ppl that posted there could have chosen NOT to post. It's a 2-way thing, remember.

Let's try to step over this and move on

[Legman]

You always accuse people of not knowing the facts or not being able to read English when they don't agree with you Ming. That's a sad story alltogether, but it isn't my point right now.

I'll provide one example of a post of yours where it seems to me that you're implying that the ICQ was going on real time. It's from the thread "Last night, penalties" here in the Apolyton Forum:

"Well, as I stated on the other page, He (MattHiggs, Legman's remark) ICQ'ed me wondering if he had earned the "The Village Idiot" title yet. He claimed he "led" the revolution, and spent hours getting people to post."

But I take it from your recent post that it wasn't the case, so I stand corrected. My misinterpretation of your earlier comments, apparently.

But that annoying quote I put in my sig isn't taken out of context at all. It just goes to show what kind of miserable human being you are Ming... When someone seriously states "... and many consider me important.", it doesn't matter what context it is in - it's just pathetic anyway you look at it. I don't think I'm the only one who sees it that way either.

I'm not going to argue with you anymore, as your continuous word-twisting and superciliousness make it impossible to have any kind of fruitful debate with you.

But take note that not everyone consider you important, allthough many do...

---
"... and many consider me important" -Ming, 05.09.2000

[Ming]

Pretty classic Legman. Your argument falls apart so you claim it's a waste of time to continue, you toss a couple of final insults, and leave. And you say I'm pathetic

[Legman]

Yes, I do. And despicable as well. But I said I'm not going to argue with you. Having trouble reading are we?

I'm not backing out because "my argument falls apart". Now how classic is that? But you're welcome to your opinion.

---
"... and many consider me important." -Ming, 05.09.2000

[Narck]

Markos, just 1 question, I don't really understand this:

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font>Lancer, calling apolyton a business is not very respectfull, when it is not. You can not make characterizations like this when you dont know the three things related to a business: how much we have worked, for how long, and how much we have earned.
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>Why is it that we cannot call Apolyton a business? Isn't that what it is (at least at this point in time)? You are making money now, so it sounds like a business to me.

Please explain

[The Mad Monk]

I didn't understand that either; when it becomes possible to turn a hobby into a business, it's usually something to be proud of. When my brother was able to make his site his sole source of income, we celebrated.

[MarkG]

a fansite is a site made by fans for the fans

a site that is a business, is a site made by businessmen for the customers

we are still a fansite, both in spirit and in profits

bottom line, as long as I'm underpaid for the work I put on apolyton, I will be insulted with the term "business"
when that will change you can call me whatever you like

[Derek]

Really I gotta disagree with everyone calling this place a business. I would be insulted too.

I seriously doubt it if Mark and Dan make enough money to even cover their costs. The heart and soul of the site has always been a fansite, built upon their love for the game. They put so much hard work into this site,m and everyone takes it for granted. This isn't their full time jobs.

Regardless, for what they are putting into this site, I guarantee they aren't getting back nearly enough for their efforts.

Mark and Dan you might take it as a compliment sometimes the way people look at the site. For instance, remember when some newbies come on and start blaming you guys for things that are in the game? Implying that you work for Micrporose or Activision. That only speaks for the quality of the site, when people think an army of workers spend their days maintaining the site.

And another thing. Civ designers come here because they know the high quality of decency and class that Apolyton is known for. Every time somebody does some stupid crap like go invading some other site, using Apolyton's name, it looks bad upon Apolyton. And they ultimatley put the site's reputation at risk. I doubt if the Civ designers and programmers would come here if such high standards were not maintained. So these stunts are the equivalent of rioters who burn down their own neighboorhoods.

I think alot of people forget, that once upon a time, there was no Off Topic. This was Civ only. Just going off-topic in a thread was grounds for penalties. Alot of us requested an Off Topic, and they were generous to create one for us, knowing full well the potential risks and administration nightmares it might create. And now alot of people take it for granted, like it's their God given right to post there.

People, stop taking for granted all the sweat and hours that Mark and Dan put into the site.

This disrespectful attitude is the equivalent of someone building a free community center in their backyard, and then you all going into it and *****ing about how it's run.

I know it's more fun to imagine them being some big, bad corporation, but that's just not the case.

Bottom line is that this is two guys WORKING THEIR ASSES off to build something special.

Cut them some ******** slack.

[Huey]

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by Derek on 05-10-2000 08:31 PM</font>
Everything Derek said here
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

Only want to say I couldn't put it any better, tnx Derek.

[DanQ]

Thank you, Derek {BIG GRIN}, and everyone else who has voiced their support thus far. It really means a lot.

----------------
Dan; Apolyton CS

[Ming]

Narck... Will I ever do that again?
HA HA HA HA! I don't think so!
I'm not that stupid If people thought I was intentionally baiting them before, just think what would happen if I was silly enough to do it again.

And Mad Monk... I have been called everything from Hitler to an intrapment king, to just plain stupid (not by you) for asking people not to post to an "informational" thread. Somebody used the example of the old "Do not touch - Wet Paint" sign. And that's all this was.

And I agree that what is done is done... and that we need to move on. Name calling and insults is not what this site is all about. (well maybe in the OTF )

[Kumiorava]

I entirely agree with Derek.

Many of you don't remember the time when the OT section didn't exsist, and the posts were scattered across the other sections, crowding the thread lists with nonsense. Now THAT was hell if somthing ever was. So please, no more of this you-bad-old-moderator crap. They don't cheat you or f*** with you for no reason, its you yourselves who bring on the bannings or what ever punishments.

And now this business thing. What are you going to do? Try to bring down an anti-trust suit on Apolyton for trying to monopolize the Civ market by making a profit? LOL!

Get a life, all of you.

------------------
I am Woodstock without the mud!

- Russi, the hairy bastard of R.309

[OhWell]

Ming,
I do not believe that you were trying to "bait" people to post in the thread. I do feel that the layout of the post was somewhat awkward, but that was not the reason that most people posted there. As I have said before, I think that you are doing a good job holding back the forces of chaos. Maybe next time you should just say "HAY EVERYBODY, BE SURE TO POST IN THIS THREAD!!" It should sink like a rock!

[Narck]

I see, Markos. Ok, I understand then, a fansite it is

Kumi:

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font>And now this business thing. What are you going to do?
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>Not what you're suggesting that's for sure. I for one was just trying to understand why Apolyton is not to be considered a business

[Robert]

Yes yes yes yes !
that's 100% true !
Thanks a very big load to Markos and Dan !
This site is really amazing, and running very good !

Well, since the good words all have already been spoken, I'm going to say some other words now

Eventhough Markos and Daniel indeed do this for free, even might lose money on it etc. etc. and do a great volunteer job, we might not forget that:
- they're nothing without 'us'
- they do have BIG fun in it ! it's not a pain for them to do it (am I right ?)
- they have a position in the civ-society, they can be proud on that, but should know it brings responsibility with it.

It's too easy to say "They give it all to us thus they can do whatever they want"
I mean, look at the number of 'registered people' at the forum. almost 6000.

Apolyton Civilization site has a function around the civ community. And Dan and Markos do get paid, not with money, but with a great position. The opportunity to have interviews with their idols, they receive correspondance from corporations like Microprose and Firaxis.

In fact it should be like this:
- we should know that Markos and Daniel do it for free, don't earn anything with it.
- they should know their responsibilities to the civ world.

Thus to be short, I think there's not wrong with some complaining if we feel like they don't use their responsibilities right.
I think there's nothing wrong with that.

to ghen I can only say that I concider this from his side like saying "CS, I can't fight your very good theist arguments anymore thus I took a vacation for weeeeeks so I don't have to face those scary facts anymore !"

thanks ghen, for admitting that there's a god ! If you still think there's no God, reply here (of course with your own nickname ! I mean, everyone can create a "ghen's 6th dl" nick

To Markos / Dan, I really appreciate your work ! I hope you guys can place my critics in the right context !

CyberShy