Lancer on Banning - What Comes Around...

[Lancer]

...goes around.

I ban Apolyton for three days.

Three days ago I was banned for acting on principle. I posted in a thread that it was a banning offense to post in so I do not protest my banning. I knew what I was doing. What I was doing was my protest. People were banned for making the mistake of posting to the title of 'The Thread'. I've done that myself and I admit it's a dumb thing to do, but a banning offense? It seemed nasty, or as Ming said, stubborn. In Mings closing post he said that both sides were being stubborn, and then he closed a thread that he said would not be closed. Admitting he was being stubborn and then closing the thread he said he would not close appeared to me to be an admittion he was mistaken in the first place. Which this policy was,

banning a person for posting to a title is not acceptable to me. So as I said, I posted on principle.

MarkG, in a way, admitted there was a problem by banning "the first five to post" for only one day. That's like saying posting to a title is a one day banning offense...that's not acceptable either. It's petty and I'm here to enjoy, not get burried in petty regulations.

Do you notice I keep saying that? If something isn't acceptable to someone who really enjoys the company of his friends, including Ming btw, exactly what can he do? This is a business, all this revolution crap is meaningless, except that it provides hits for the site. However it is a business, and I can treat it as it treats me, because I've got more power than a citizen that can revolt but not leave. I can leave, and I will, and to my friends (if you are given the chance to read this) I say,

I'm banning Apolyton, if I'm allowed I'll be back in three days.

May God bless and keep you well.

[The Mad Viking]

IMHO, it is MarkG and Ming the Merciless who were immature, and the banned posters who were being optimistic about moderators acting like adults.

The posters were making a statement against a rule they perceived to be stupid.

Moderators have dictatorial authority to close any thread. Closing the thread (w/o making a new one) would have been very easy and entirely appropriate.

Banning the posters was vindictive and immature. "I draw this line, and I dare you to step over it!" That the whole thing got carried away with DLs was pretty predictable.

I think both Ming and MarkG do a very good job. I think they messed up this time. We all mess up. I don't expect them to "admit" to anything, and yet Ming already has "confessed" to stuborness, but I hope they learn from it.

--------------------------------
"I fight authority, authority always wins."

[Robert]

Markos, you scare me !

I start to wonder if you take yourself serious ? I hope you're writing those scary lines with a grin on your face and not with anger in your heart.

lines like: "My opinion is that both he and I were optimistic on the level of maturity of some people"
and: "I dont think you're so stupid not to be able to follow the rules here. it's not like we have tons of them..."

are really not applicable for this situation ! We're not talking like 100 people revolting against this site (eventhough Ming tries to make it look like) but we're talking about a case were an ad hoc rule was made that was impossible to maintain and in the eyes of most people a silly one and very overdone.

A very minor thingy. Some people just showed their disrespect for that rule, and later much more people showed their disrespect for the punishments that were given for breaking such a small silly minor not important weird rule.

Something very small became big because of the way the administrators of this site (I believe more and more that this situation went wrong becuase you, Markos, overreacted while Ming wanted to settle it down again) completely reacted wrong on this matter.

The people that posted made a small mistake, and broke a small rule indeed. They're wrong on that. You're wrong for overreacting.

And you're still overreacting like an nuclear bomb was almost trowed at your house.

Relax man !
Please !
Or reply and tell me you were joking.
Dang it, I almost lose my blind faith in Markos The Allknowing Master of Apolyton

CyberShy

[Ming]

You are welcome to your opinion.

But a question... Don't you think the people that posted to that thread were a little vindictive and immature. You say they were protesting a stupid rule. But, do you break every stupid rule you see. Do you always do things people tell you not do? And do you expect to get away unpunished? Try that in the real world, and you will get punished. Whether the rule was stupid or not will remain debatable. But it was against the rules. You have the right to break any rule you want, but you better be ready to serve the punishment that comes with breaking it. I call that accepting reponsiblities for ones actions.



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Ming
CivII & Off-Topic Forum Moderator
Ming@Apolyton.net
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by Ming (edited May 09, 2000).]</font>

[Imran Siddiqui]

Wasn't it you Ming that said "rules are made for breaking" in an ICQ conversation with me? So which rules are made for breaking? Certain rules? Come on, which one?

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font>Is this the first incident of self-banning on apolyton?
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

No, I self banned myself for a few days because of this incident (3 days I think), and I did it before because of the YYYH & Spink bit.

[Ming]

Well IS, I did say that. And I believe it too. But, when I break rules, I accept responsibity for any punishment that goes along with my actions.
I constantly ignore the speeding limits in this country when I drive. And, when I get caught, I'm very polite to the police officer (he is only doing his job), and I accept my punishment. I don't complain or whine about it, because I know I was breaking a rule/law.

When I enter somebodies home, I like to know what the house rules are. I would never want to offend my host, even accidentally. Some people have some really silly rules in their homes... but I respect whatever those rules are, because I am a guest
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by Ming (edited May 09, 2000).]</font>

[The Mad Monk]

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font>But, do you break every stupid rule you see. Do you always do things people tell you not do? And do you expect to get away unpunished? Try that in the real world, and you will get punished.
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

An interesting question. No, I don't break every stupid rule I see, but I do break some of them; I'm sure you do too, especially those that you're unaware of. The legal code here in the U.S. is chock full of stupid rules that people break every day--they just aren't enforced. How did these laws come to be ignored?

There is a huge, worthwhile debate hiding in this, but my time is short so I'll just say this: in breaking stupid rules, you demonstrate their stupidity to those in power and to the public in general. This is a good thing, because it prompts those in power to recind bad rules and create better ones.

In respect to Lancer's self-imposed banning, I respect and support it, but will not follow, as I would prefer to discuss this topic while it's still fresh.

[Huey]

Cyber...

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font>(snip)...an ad hoc rule was made that was impossible to maintain and in the eyes of most people a silly one and very overdone.

A very minor thingy. Some people just showed their disrespect for that rule, and later much more people showed their disrespect for the punishments that were given for breaking such a small silly minor not important weird rule.
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

The first few people posting there (Karsten c.s.) clearly did it for fun and were well aware of the consequences. IMO Ming reacted very well to it, banning them till after his next day afternoon nap. I was really LMAO and was going to say something about afternoon naps. Only when I scrolled further thru the thread I saw the usual spammers, obviously there to make trouble and I decided not to post. And then, to my surprise there were a lot of what I consider serious posters (including you and Lancer) protesting for the right of people to **** things up? Now I agree with you that the admins/mods didn't handle things too clever but I guess they were caught by surprise. If I was in their shoes I would be too and there definitely would be some permanent bans for the ones who deliberately tried to mess up my site just for the fun of it.
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by Huey (edited May 09, 2000).]</font>

[MarkG]

permanents bans? are you joking?
even a day's ban is a crime against humanity!

[Huey]

That's why it's a good thing this is your site and not mine

[MarkG]

yeah, it's so much better being a poster
I really found out today at another forum...

[Alexander's Horse]

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by MarkG on 05-09-2000 12:42 PM</font>


My opinion is that both he and I were optimistic on the level of maturity of some people


<img src="/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

Really? On the OT?

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha he he he he he he ho ho ho ho

[Nimrod.]

Never compromise what you believe.

[Robert]

Ming,

Years ago I used to drive my bike very often (I got a car now, so I hardly use my bike anymore) and I never got light on it. (light on bikes is a pain ! it works 2 days, and then just stops working)

We dutch are supposed to have light on our bikes. I've been catched without light very often. Mostly the police dudes said "This is a warning, next time...." you know ?

Sometimes there are rules, but they're never enforced. Sometimes such a status quo is needed. It's like drugs here in the netherlands. They are officially forbidden ! But no-one will ever be punished for using it ! It's impossible to keep on forbidding it since just that much people use drugs, but ethics say we have to forbid it so we can keep on fighting the big guys in the drugs world.

Hell, you keep talking about us that we should accept our punishment. I did ! I hoped in advance you would turn your mind, but I accepted it. That I start a discussion about it doesn't mean I don't accept it. I DID sin against the rule. No discussion about that. And for that reason I DID DESERVE that punishment. No discussion about that.

But deserving something and getting something = 2. I deserve the "Apolyton Shy dude of the Month" title but never got it you see !?

Now plz free ghen.
He's a good guy and just reacted to the situation. Now he's banned 3 weeks or something for something that started as silly as for everyone.

I can't judge about the others, but I know about my fellow enemy atheist ghen that he's a good guy.

I hope you guys will see that merci isn't showing of weakness but that it's showing how strong you are ! Forget about the american "he who has the power should use it" culture and use the more civilized european culture rule: "the dude with most power is the one that 's most relaxed on the rule"

CyberShy

[Ming]

People that just posted in the thread go off easy. Heck the first few people got a day.
But the people that created double log ons did so with a sole intent of disrupting this site. People were ICQing each other, passing on information on "OPEN LOG ONS"
The intent was there!
That is a serious thing to the people that own this site. The offenders knew that double log ons, and disrupting this site was WRONG.

I have no pity for them. For those that just posted in the thread... now that's a different story.