Should we freeze the ACPSG?

[MrWhereItsAt]

I can't say I've given the Politburo thing much thought, but it is an additional layer of authority on the usual Ministers - President/Vice President of DGs that I am unused to, so it is new to me. Maybe an understanding of the whys and whats of this will come to me with time.

Rules I certainly agree with the need for - in a sense. I guess I always want the DGs to be played much the same as the Civ2DG is and always has been - no Constitution, merely a set of guidelines as to which Minister does what, and we can all get on with it. I have fought lost battles many times in the Civ3DG about Constitutions, and I am happy to say the Con there is a Constitution in name only, as we have not consulted it for a loooong time. When turns are played, they are done so without the controversy had when the rules controlled all. There are no major conflicts, and if someone has an issue they raise it and it is worked out to mutual satisfaction. Rules always have exceptions.

Ignore the RP? I can but try, but it sometimes feels as if I should use some else I am bringing down the fun for others.

...electron spin matrices

ARGH! Keep those 'orrible things away from me! I understand their use in some fields (basic QM for example), but they typify trouble for me with things like Gauge theories.

[AdamTG02]

Ghh. This is what happens when I post in a hurry.

To clarify, the Chairman has the power to play turns in an emergency; i.e. when no orders have been received by a turnchat. This was done in the last turnchat, because no orders were posted.

I was not addressing General Secretary Maniac; I was addressing the members of the Council of Ministers. As a Politburo member who is not a minister, who is interested in the success of the Hive, I wanted to make sure they understood that others will pick up their duties if they do not perform them. I was overly confrontational, and for this I apologize. I simply wanted to make clear that for those who want to be part of the political life of the Hive, given the results of this poll, it seems you'll have to post orders.

I presumed to speak for the General Secretary and the Chairman, and for this again I apologize. I hope that the other worthy members of the Central Committee, especially the ministers, will not hold against me a comment made in haste.

[FlameFlash]

No!

[Maniac]

Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt
I can't say I've given the Politburo thing much thought, but it is an additional layer of authority on the usual Ministers - President/Vice President of DGs that I am unused to, so it is new to me. Maybe an understanding of the whys and whats of this will come to me with time.

Though the ACPSG Politburo may at first seem unorthodox compared to the government structures of democracy games, it isn't that radically new. Let's have a look at what the constitutional proposal says about the Politburo:

The members of the Politburo are appointed by the General Secretary, the Chairman of the Politburo. The Politburo can at most consist out of nine members. Criteria for selection are political influence, activity rate (especially on turnchats) and representation of the most important political tendencies. The Chairman of the Council of Ministers is an automatic member of the Politburo though.
Tasks and functions:

• In case of a constitutional issue, the judges for the Supreme Court will be volunteers of the Politburo.
• A majority of the Politburo can veto any decision of an executive government official.

The Politburo doesn't really have that much to do. Judges have to be chosen out of the Buro, and they can veto decisions, which was also an ability of judges in the first ACDG. So just talking functionally you can simply consider the Politburo of the ACPSG the Supreme Court of the ACDG.
A big difference is that the Politburo (and thus the judges) are appointed by the General Secretary, and not by elections every two months as in the ACDG. But I believe that's an improvement, as in the previous ACDG it happened several times that people who were elected Judges were no longer active two months later. Now the General Secretary can appoint the most active members Politburo members, so judges will always be sufficiently available, and it can be quickly decided without much judicial bureaucracy if an order is eg unconstitutional and thus needs to be vetoed.
Besides that the Politburo also performs an important RP function. After all you can't have a decent police state without a party elite who supposedly controls everything!

Rules I certainly agree with the need for - in a sense. I guess I always want the DGs to be played much the same as the Civ2DG is and always has been - no Constitution, merely a set of guidelines as to which Minister does what, and we can all get on with it.

Despite the formalities of our constitution, I think you can consider it a set of informal guidelines as well. The most important part is telling what each official does. There's another big part about Courts, but those are rarely needed, and there's also a big part about polls, but unless there are some conflicts about SE for instance, those neither need to be followed that strictly IMHO. The constitution is handy to refer to if there is a conflict, but if everything goes fluently, it doesn't need to be brought up.

I have fought lost battles many times in the Civ3DG about Constitutions, and I am happy to say the Con there is a Constitution in name only, as we have not consulted it for a loooong time. When turns are played, they are done so without the controversy had when the rules controlled all. There are no major conflicts, and if someone has an issue they raise it and it is worked out to mutual satisfaction. Rules always have exceptions.

Indeed. But the Consciousness is a smaller group, and since we all chose the same faction, we probably automatically agree on most things. For a (hopefully ) larger game with more opportunity for disagreement I find it handy to have something to fall back upon.

AdamTG:

for this again I apologize. I hope that the other worthy members of the Central Committee, especially the ministers, will not hold against me a comment made in haste.

Don't worry. I just cancelled my order to Hercules to eliminate you. You can rest assured.

[Darkness' Edge]

I'm glad to see that a non-team game got going again, but the overriding roleplay element is a bit of a turn-off.

*runs back to obscurity*

[Nubclear]

Haha. There really is no more roleplay here In fact, this is pretty much a spam town.

+1

[MrWhereItsAt]

Originally posted by Darkness' Edge
I'm glad to see that a non-team game got going again, but the overriding roleplay element is a bit of a turn-off.

*runs back to obscurity*

HA! Interesting to see we both agree. Ironically, it appears in our efforts to start a SPDG weunwittingly unleashed what became something different.

Like Soviet Union - Lenin would certainly not have expected what happened there under Stalin!

Er, not that I'm really comparing you guys to... oh forget it.

[Pandemoniak]

Now the General Secretary can appoint the most active members Politburo members, so judges will always be sufficiently available, and it can be quickly decided without much judicial bureaucracy if an order is eg unconstitutional and thus needs to be vetoed.

I simply love it. Who said police states were inefficient ? :nasty:
Thats also the main point for any dictatorship. Whats the point losing time to talk and chat when you can be as efficient ? And in what name can you trust the weak masses of voters when you are not sure the elected person can do its job properly, says Yang ?

[Nubclear]

Originally posted by Pandemoniak

I simply love it. Who said police states were inefficient ? :nasty:
Thats also the main point for any dictatorship. Whats the point losing time to talk and chat when you can be as efficient ? And in what name can you trust the weak masses of voters when you are not sure the elected person can do its job properly, says Yang ?

Pandemoniak!!!!