Turns of Democracy in Peril

[knowhow2]

turn 2192 to darius

[Darius]

John, that timetable sounds good, as I need to finish some probes and ships first. And I don't know what our upgrade costs are, but I don't have a lot of cash. I'm finding that I didn't expand enough early on, so my production, research and economy are all slow.

2193 to John.

[johndmuller]

2193
Nothing exciting this year.

Darius, here are my costs to Upgrade a Trained Drop Infantry Shell (1-1-1) to:
a)-ECM Plasma Trance ec=40
b)-3A Plasma Trance ec=50
c)-Clean ECM Plasma ec=60
d)-Clean 3A Plasma ec=60

If you can do it cheaper, then I'll just send you ec's for whatever your costs are instead of upgrading it myself. I will be getting p-drones until it is yours, but I might be willing to spend a little extra to figure out exactly what we can and cannot do in one turn. At the cost of spending extra time with the DW redesigning the drop shell unit, I can always upgrade the whole class of units that way after all the rest of the move is done (assuming I don't have extraneous units I don't want ugraded), although I don't really want to have to keep redesigning the same unit over and over.

I suppose you'll be picking (d) since I'm buying, but feel free to go with (b) if support is not an issue, or some other design if you'd rather and I can afford it. Unless you tell me otherwise, I'm going to stop at the Monolith to upgrade using that extra turn. I can see the road - Thanks.

I'm planning on sending you a standard (speeder) Probe on the following turn if my delivery system works - unless you don't want it. Assuming that you do, tell me where you want it to end up and I'll turn it over at whichever base seems to waste the least movement.

[knowhow2]

turn 2193 to darius

I'm putting more effort into building My Airfleet.

[Darius]

2194 to John.

John, I haven't prototyped any of those units yet, so I can't make a direct comparison. I can upgrade a standard 1-1-1 (not trained, not drop) to a trance plasma for 40 ec or to a AAA 3pulse for 80 ec.

Actually, I think I can pull this off on my own now, I just need to move my units into place at Craftsman's Keep. So if you have other plans you want to pursue, go ahead.

Both of you - I will need all of your techs within the next few turns, so I can go steal all of the Hive's.

[johndmuller]

2194

Well it's new tech time again.

Knowhow2, it looks like you will finish Superconductor a little before I finish PreSentient. Assuming that we want Fusion Power, I see two possibilities (1) You give me Superconductor when you get it and research something else, assuming that I will be able to research the Fusion tech; and (2) You research PreSentient Algorithms {or one of the techs I already have that you don't (Intel Integrity, CyberEthics, Advanced Subatomic or Doc:Initiative)}, then when I get Presentient, I give it to you and you switch to Fusion; if you aren't offered Fusion to research, you research one of the other techs on that list, I then give it to you and we see if you can research Fusion at that point (repeating as necessary until we get it). Under this (2) scenario, you don't offer me Superconductor right away.

In order to minimize research costs, I would recommend (2): You researching Presentient and switching to Fusion after I give Presentient to you. I will research Silksteel until Darius gives it to me to likewise save a little on the tech costs (and keep our options open for me to research Fusion if you have trouble going that way).

As usual, if you want to go a different way, feel free.

Darius, if you are trying to keep up with all the techs, the next few turns will be active as we will all be getting new ones - you should confirm your desire to have them all (bearing in mind that in only a few turns you will be finishing your research too).

As far as the next tech targets, I haven't given it a lot of thought, but currently favor getting Planetary Economics (requiring Progenitor Psych & Adaptive Economics) and Centauri Meditation (requiring Centauri Empathy). Any other (or better) ideas?.

Darius, re the unit(s) you may or may not want from me: As you can see, I moved the drop shell unit over to the Monolith; just let me know what you want to do (if you say you want it in some form or other, I'll probably move it over to Free Drone Central from where it can reach nearly all of your bases; if you don't I'll probably move it to Miners Freehold from where I can drop it back to my territory). Next turn I will probably deliver a standard probe over there, although if you wanted it, I could deliver (and hopefully be able to turn over to you right away) a regular synthmetal garrison instead (please specify which of the three bases near the monolith you would want it in). As I (might have) said before, I am refining my techniques here, so don't hold me to those high Drone efficiency standards - this goes under my R&D budget.

[knowhow2]

turn 2194 to darius

choice 2 sounds great. after fusion I vote for C empathy so that green will be avaible. as soon as I get some seaunits underway I can clean out cyborgs in a few turns.

[Darius]

2195 to John.

knowhow2, as my turn was closing, I saw at least two enemy jets in your territory. One of the killed one of your formers.

John, my former at Shanghai needs new orders.

My fleet should be ready to depart from Craftman's Keep in three turns. After one turn en route, it will arrive at Sea Collective and the fun will begin. John, if you wish to participate by contributing a unit or two, that would be cool. I think the most useful configuration at this point woud be a AAA best armor garrison to hold the base after I capture it. Drop ability is not necessary, as I cannot drop into sea bases. (Might be useful later though, in the land invasion phase.) Another probe would be handy, too. Whatever you bring to Craftsman's Keep in the next three turns, I'll bring them along.

Hey, here's as idea. We could all slow our research (allocate 0% to labs) so as not to discover any new techs until after I clean out the Hive. We could then later switch to new techs without penalty, and discover a whole new crop of techs that the Hive does not have on the next turn. What do you think?

[johndmuller]

Darius,

Your may or may not have possibilities; mainly, I would need to know what techs the Hive has that we don't, perhaps you could let me know that before I take my turn (in case you didn't know, reopening an already played turn doesn't trigger any future cheating warnings unless you save and we play from that reopened turn). Your proposal suggests that the Hive already has the techs, but you didn't actually spell that out.

I see a couple of possible downsides to the plan. First, it is presumably too late for knowhow2 to implement your idea since I think his next tech comes in this year so Superconductor will be gotten before he could stop it. My tech is scheduled a year later, it is to be Presentient Algs and I could theoretically follow that plan if the Hive already has that tech, although I don't know whether I would get substantially more Econ out of it given the way the game penalizes those radical shifts in allocation (that's the other potential drawback) - I'll check it out though and see if it is worth it - I might be able to put some psych to good use, I was thinking that I could afford to switch to demo now that I have mostly clean units (perhaps the psych would give me one fewer drone to make up for losing those 10 free mins which are nice when you need a rec comm right away as I do currently). If the Hive doesn't have Presentient, it doesn't hurt for me to get it and even if they do, we would be forgoing 4 or more turns of researching which whould get us well on the way to another tech (which the Hive could have available to be stolen by then if they've already got what we are workinig on). If you can tell me what additional techs they have and what they might get from the other AI's and what they are all working on, that would be most helpful.
Thanks,
John

[Darius]

John, those are good points. (I wish I had thought of this sooner.) I will put together a list of the techs which each of us and the Hive have, but I will not be able to do it until this evening, probably after the kids go to bed.

[johndmuller]

Darius: Its OK with me to wait til you check it out; thinking about it, I recall that the University(I think it was them) was starting on the Hunter-Seeker some time ago, so they at least have Polysentient. I most likely won't get to the turn until sometime tomorrow in this case as I am going to NY overnight and unless I am uncharacteristically early getting ready (or unless your kids go to bed without their supper) I probably won't be able to get to the turn before we leave. I may also be a bit slower than usual through the weekend.

Please keep the duplication to my hotmail account going a while longer as I sometimes have flakier msn mail up there for some reason, but after the holiday we can probably go back to just one if it is easier for you. By the way, if I forget again to tell you where to move the former, just move it to the other side of Shanghai - two up along the coast (currently forested).

[Darius]

The Hive has the following techs that we currently lack:
1. Superconductor (knowhow2 will discover upon opening this turn)
2. Presentient Algorithms (johndmuller will discover next turn)
3. Superstring Theory
They will complete Fusion Power in 2 turns.

(I've already subtracted one from all of the above years to reflect the new year when John plays his turn.)

I agree that it's too late for knowhow2 to implement my idea. But look what happens to John, currently researching at ten turns per tech: doing nothing, you will get Superconductor next year, then maybe Fusion in eleven years. But if you slow your research, then in five turns I will steal Superconductor AND Fusion and give them to you, then you turn your research back on and in the sixth year you will discover a third tech. You end up with three techs in 6 years, rather than 2 techs in 11 years. Unless I'm missing something, that sounds like a good deal. Let me know what I'm doing wrong.

(By the way, the University has the Hunter-Seeker Algorithm.)

[Darius]

OK, I know what I was doing wrong. Let me try this again.

Do nothing: Discover Presentient next turn, steal Fusion and Superstring in 5 years, discover x in about 11 years. 4 techs in 11 years.

Slow your research: Steal Presentient & Superstring & Fusion in 5 years, discover x in 6 years. 4 techs in 6 years. We still come out ahead.

[johndmuller]

2195

Sorry it took me so long, between Thanksgiving travel and rearranging my research/economy, it took quite a while.

Well, I hadn't read Darius' latest post before my move, and being convinced that it was a good idea, I slowed my research to 10% (econ is better at 80-10-10 than at 90-10-0).

It will still give me a tech in just a few years, so I will have to revisit it anyway, perhaps to rethink altogether if Darius' new version seems to make more sense. Meanwhile, I'm going down the official Democracy road at last, so my economy will have to be a little different at least, but I may be able to pop-boom a little this way.

Darius, I've got a probe and the drop shell scheduled to arrive at Craftsman Keep next turn; I'll convert and turn them over to you as soon as I can (presumably by the following turn at latest). Interestingly, don't seem to get the p-drones when in one of your bases.

[knowhow2]

turn 2195 to darius

supercon offered to you both. Since darius is planning to steal Hive tech I guess we don't need to research Fusion ourselves?
I went C Empathy so that we eventually gets Green.