New Game 7 Human players

[buster]

As there has been little response here the last days (is everyone getting discoouraged by prelims?).

I suggest we get it going.

If alright - I will sift out the rules from what has been voted - where it is not clear I will do the usually used rules (which is for instance no communication till you meet).

It will be a medium Map - the one called Planet in your maps directory under alpha centauri.

regards
Kim

[Tai Mai Shu]

That's perfectly fine with me, my email is Spoofmaster@hotmail.com, and I'm all set to go.

[Levelisk]

Sounds good. My email is jeffrey@thecases.com in case you don't have it already

[SmartFart]

Let's play

smartfart@pulp-fiction.com

[johndmuller]

Great buster, it's fine with me to get going, just so long as any ambiguous rules are spelled out before they make any difference. I think I put in my email address earlier, but if not, it is johndmuller@msn.com.
Thanks again,
John

[John Paul Jones]

Mine's in my profile : johnpauljones@oceanfree.net

[dinoarms]

BUGS

All

Strategy, Speed and Flexibility of Economic Development will be impacted Greatly by indescision around some of the BUGS.


You will have to play your game making economic and miliatary descision based on possible bugs that dramatically affect the way of the game.


Whatever votes are registered will stand. Myself, Tai Mai Shu, SmartFart and Johndfuller have taken positions on these "considerations" Make sure you do as well. Let yourself be heard.

See my next post for voting categories and progress so far.

Tai Mai Shu: It is impossible for me to just put NO in all the undisputed categories as a yes/no answer is not what is called for

[dinoarms]

BUGS

EDITED OUT

[johndmuller]

Well, if we must deal with the details, then I guess we should get it over with as soon as possible. Dinoarms, if you were hoping that we could all edit this thread, I'm afraid that the board won't let us.

First, dinoarms, you introduced a bug into my name; it should be johndmuller.

Map: I thought we had a consensus on a standard size world map; I could handle a larger size (although it would probably take longer for us to encounter each other), but I'd rather not go smaller. I'd be happiest with a unknown world - i.e. random or otherwise contrived unknown to us - although that might make more work for Buster. If not unknown, then I don't suppose I care whether it is Terra, Planet or the Tournament map - do they all come with the added-on landmarks (boreholes and manifold), I don't think my SMAC generates them on the planet map IIRC.

Dinoarms, I think that you've got a few duplicates in here.

1. Neutral
2&3. I'm not sure what the issues are.
4. Yes
5. Yes - Does the victim know they've been probed?
6. Yes
7. Yes (you've got Tai Mai Shu going both ways.
8. Please clarify question - the yes/no aspect is confusing.
....suggest: "Allow SE quickies and upgrading crawlers for quick SP's" in which case I say "No"
9. No
10. Neutral
11. Yes
12. Yes -- Unbalanced if some do and some don't (see past threads for extent of imbalance)
....If you're worried about it then make it optional and everyone will need to do it.
....else spotchecks by CMN to enforce.
13 thru 17. Yes
18. 48 hour rule seems kinda harsh
19. Yes - I think that the base sinking is one of the main reasons for the rule.
20. Yes - Dinoarms, I don't think it is too relevant in a game with only humans,
.... but I'm shocked that you would even think of doing this on purpose.
21. Yes - This is the same as # 5 !
22. Yes
23. No - This is "reverse engineering" again (#7) !! (at least it is in reverse this time)
24. >Missing<
25. Yes
26. No - I didn't even know you could do this.
27. Neutral
28. What do yes and no mean here?
.... Isn't this a repeat of # 8 !!!
....I think that this is at least partly covered by # 16

Comm before contact: No
Comm by email: Yes
There is also the ability to make announcements in the turn tracking thread.

Sunspots: how allowing about Comm during sunspots anyway; then we won't have to keep track?

Hopefully, we can nail these things down and get started.

[Levelisk]

The points that have some dispute as of now and my feelings towards them:

5) Yes, unless given prior permission to select Ignore Action instead

7) Yes

12) Doesn't matter. dinoarms: Letting players do such will only help the momentum builders, as they will get more money when something is constructed (it always happens when you build a facility or SP, unless something is in the queue after that).

19) Yes, prohibit that, in all forms. Especially since that bug is fixed in SMAX...

20) Yes, no erasing Vendetta actions that way, including Probe Actions

21) Yes. dinoarms: The prober is given the box in multiplayer for some reason, and he has to choose for the victim.

22) Depends. If cooperative victory is enabled (I vote it is), then yes because pacts will more than likely last the whole game. Otherwise, no.

26) No renaming cities (the statement offered is kind of vague)

27) No

28) No. No switching back to a SE setting in the same turn, unless you're just checking for how many drones you'll acquire with FM, for example. dinoarms: this, like many others, just requires honesty

[buster]

To johndmuller:

Regarding maps it makes no difference to me. The only problem with an unknown map is to fairly distribute start postions.
Anyway - with the scenario editor I can go in and modify it - if it is obvious some player is getting a bad deal.

Regarding landmarks - as it is a Smac game I assume the smacx landmarks will be left out (like crash site).

The planet map btw does have the Landmarks and is quite fairly split up in three major landmasses.

The tourney map I personally have a hard time seeing with 7 players. It is made for 4 with more it would be a somewhat unfair map I think as all landmarks are on the continents and one would need to go on one continent and two on one of the others.

Anyway - I have no personal wishes in this matter. It is completely up to you people. If you want random you will have that. If you want prepared fine with me too - only if it some other map than planet or terra someone will need to tell me which one and where to find it or send it.

[dinoarms]

Johndmuller

Copy's, hehe good...less to consider.

A standard map it will be. I'm not sure what Buster can dig up. , with you on the map being unknown.

2. Announcement of prob actions.

I believe this has to do with declaring vendetta before you probe a faction you have a treaty or pact with

votes
yes: dinoarms

3. Use of Demand withdrawl button

I believe this enables/disables a faction ability to right click in the commlink and choose the demand withdrawl option to involuntarily move a factions units back to there nearest base if they are on your territory.

votes
no: dinoarms

5. declare vendetta for probe actions
yes: tai mai shu, Johndmuller
no: dinoarms
comment
Dinoarms: up to the victim on the following turn

He will know he has been probed on his next turn. The problem is that when you probe someone a popup appears asking you to declare vendetta or give stern warning. This popup is for the victim of the probe action. Answering no to this option will mean that you will choose the "give stern warning option" and therefore the choice to declare vendetta will be left to the victim.

7. Reverse engineering
yes (except probes to rovers) Tai Mai Shu, Johndmuller, dinoarms
no
dinoarms: we will need the CMN to police this game



8. Allow SE quickies and no upgrading crawlers for quick SP's
yes
no Tai Mai Shu, Johndmuller
comment
neutral: dinoarms


10. Pod booming past hab limits
yes Tai Mai Shu
no: dinoarms
neutral: Johndmuller

12. Inserting Stockpile Energy into the build queue after a military unit is forbidden.
yes: Johndmuller
no
neutral: dinoarms
comment
dinoarms: I don't know sound hard to force. Does it imbalance the game?
Johndmuller: Yes -- Unbalanced if some do and some don't (see past threads for extent of imbalance)
....If you're worried about it then make it optional and everyone will need to do it.
,,,,else spotchecks by CMN to enforce

16. Social engineering choice limited to one switch per line per turn. (no flip-flop within turn!)
yes dinoarms, Johndmuller
no
comment
dinoarms: How can we prove that this is being done?


18. I don't think the CMN will be that strict.

19. Starting a terraforming operation in one square, cancelling it, moving to a different square, and then finishing it in that new square is prohibited in cases of "combat terraforming." This prevents "crediting up" a terraformer in a safe location and then moving it to a dangerous location where the terraforming is completed in one turn. An example of this would be using a sea former to sink an enemy coastal base - the sea former has to do all of the work in the target square where the enemy can retaliate.
yes
no
comment
dinoarms: this technique is fine with me except for "base sinking"

I am not sure what your yes means. Please qualify.

28. I removed this question as it is covered in 8. and 16.


Communication

I believe there is a bug that allows you to read all dip. comlink communication that have occured in the game.



Com before contact
yes
no: dinoarms, smartfart, Johndmuller

Comm by email:
Yes : dinoarms, Johndmuller

Sunspot Communications Block
yes dinoarms
no Johndmuller

Whoever notices sunspots first should notify the CMN who can notify all players by email.

[dinoarms]

After taking into account Johndmullers vote we now have...




wins in
1-8, 10-17, 20, 21, 23, 25

ties is
9, 19, 22, 24

no votes in
18

[dinoarms]

BUGS

Levelisk


7. Could you qaulify? ie probes to rovers

12. Do you mean to say that the min bonus is received if there is a facility following the unit as well. I understood that these extra minerals where only supplied in the case of stockpile in the que after a miliatary unit.


19. Will you not be able to use it if BECAUSE of SMACX?

[dinoarms]

BUG and progress

We now have votes from
Dinoarms
Tai Mai Shu
Johndfuller
Levelisk
Smartfart

and none from Solver and John Paul Jones. They have been emailed

Thus far we have winning votes in these categories
1, 5, 8, 10, 21, 26-27

Thus far we have consensus in these categories
2-4, 6, 9, 11, 13-18, 23-25

Thus far we conflict in these categories
12, 20, 22

Thus far we have no votes in these categories


We have details to resolve in these categories
5, 7, 19