The Laptop Game turn tracking thread

[jtsisyoda]

2180 to Rubin.

I've asked Rubin to send me another copy of the rules... I didn't copy them from my old PC.

Edit: Also, I played the turn before reading Rubin's suggestion. I declined rather than closed. It didn't seem to matter.

[Rubin]

2180 sent to Net Warrior. Copy of House Rules sent to jtsisyoda.

For some reason Darsnan switched on random events (or forgot to turn them off). Since we have not agreed upon a set of rules to apply during sunspot activity I am willing to consider alternatives to § 10. (In this particular case, sunspot-issue-agreements may have been ignored entirely, since sunspot activity was not supposed to be possible.)

[Net Warrior]

I'll proceed as though we've adopted rule 10 until we agree otherwise.

Something has come up that I've PM'ed our CMN about. I'll be holding the turn till I here from him.

[Chip_Buckner]

I may or may not have received any in-game diplomatic correspondence last turn. If I received such correspondence, I neither accepted, rejected nor replied to it.

I am not at home and do not have access to Rule 10. I will play by whatever rule the three of you agree upon.

I do, however, ask that you not make a rule that I will unknowingly break. In my--albeit limited--experience, the diplomatic screen appears before I get notice of sunspots. Accordingly, it would be very easy for the first player--through no fault of his own--to accept or reply to a diplomatic offer without knowing of sunspot activity.

[Rubin]

Gentlemen:
Here are the rules that applies specifically to sunspot activity. I need to include the above mentioned addendum applying to the first year of sunspot activity, but since all players so far have complied with the addendum I regard this as a simple formality. However, I am willing to disregard this special addendum if is causes unforeseen problems; this may require a replay of M.Y 2180.

§ 2. Player Contact:
(2) Player diplomacy is not permitted during sunspot activity. See § 10.

§ 3. Probe Action:
(1) If you perform a probe team action other than to infiltrate against another player with whom you are in a truce, treaty or pact, you must inform the probed player what it was you did and what you stole/sabotaged (notify the victim of your transgression).
(2) You must choose the 'declare vendetta/cancel pact' option when you perform the action, unless you have received permission in advance.
(3) If you are already in a state of Vendetta against the probed player or if you haven't established contact to the player due to sunspot activity in effect no notification is required--this also includes an expired truce during sunspot activity.

§ 10. Sunspot Activity:
Sunspot activity effectively prevents any kind of player diplomacy. This includes sharing of knowledge (coordinates, bases etc.), tactical military discussions, discussions on research goals etc. Consider the situation to be equal to NOT having met any other factions in the game, e.g. the situation in M.Y. 2101.
Any agreements made BEFORE the sunspot activity occurs are considered in effect until communications are back -- unless the agreement clearly states otherwise. Of course, any action in the game that would normally cancel an agreement also cancels the agreement during sunspot activity.
Adjacent units of different factions cannot communicate. All communication is simply forbidden. To prevent 'abuse' of the turn thread, I suggest that no reports are posted -- just the notification that the turn has been passed on to the next player. However, 'game pop-ups' are still to be posted (If agreed upon).

[Chip_Buckner]

I would like to propose an amendment to Rule 10.

The first person who plays a turn may receive a diplomatic window before he knows that sunspots should preclude his response. Under the rules as written, if I were to accept the offer, I would have to replay the turn. The problem is that, the information that the fact that I had to replay the turn conveys information that the other players are not entitled to have.

For example, let's say that Yoda and I have agreed that we will exchange technologies only with one another. I--being an untrustworthy person--promptly cut a technology deal with NetWarrior. The box pops up and I accept it. If I have to replay the turn, everyone knows that I was party to a diplomatic transaction. NetWarrior, of course, knows what it was. Rubin and Yoda, however, know that there was a transaction AND THAT IT DID NOT INVOLVE THEM. Yoda is not entitled to the information that I was bargaining with someone other than him, but the rules--as set forth here--force me to reveal that information to him.

I would like to propose that the first player may act upon diplomatic offers made to him before he becomes aware of sunspots. I suppose I could make a counteroffer, but it would automatically be rejected by whoever I sent it to, because he WOULD know that there were sunspots.

Before you worry about whether I gain any advantage to this, remember that at the END of sunspot activity, it is impossible for me to accept a diplomatic initiative, because no one was able to send one to me on the preceding turn.

What do you think?

[Rubin]

So, the first player may act upon any diplomatic negotiations presented at the beginning of the first year of sunspot activity. This player (in casu Chip) informs the other players that sunspot activity has occured and the subseqent players are to preclude ANY diplomatic transactions and negotiations in progress by closing the diplomacy window that may appear at the start of their turns.

Once sunspot activity ceases the first player announces this and diplomacy returns to normal for the subsequent players.

This seems sound to me (if I understand correctly).

An alternative is to force a replay at the beginning and end of sunspot activity for the first player. However, this may return problematic results, e.g. if the deal included map data. Thus, I prefer Chip's amendment.

[Net Warrior]

As usual, we have to take it on faith that we are all abiding by the rules. Therefore, we should proceed as if "what you don't know yet can't hurt you". So, if any player acts on a diplomatic offer before becomming aware of sunspots then the transaction stands. If, on the other hand, he decides to wait, planning to act mid-turn instead of immediately and finds sunspots then he is no longer free to make the transaction.

I don't like the idea of replaying the turn much at all.

BTW, I've gotten a preliminary response to my inquery from our CMN. I had an AI question and asked him to look at 2179 & 2180. I'm fairly satisfied with his earlier reply and if I don't hear more shortly, I'll just proceed with the turn. Sorry for the delay.

[Chip_Buckner]

I agree, I think.

I had assumed that if I delayed action on a diplomatic inquiry during sunspots that I would be unable to call it back up. Is that not the case? Won't the game prevent me from contacting anyone?

As for later players, so long as I send you all an email saying that sunspots have started, you should not be able to claim to be unaware of sunspot activity.

Moreover, if any of you accepts a diplomatic offer during sunspots, one of us is going to know about it. I assume that the AI doesn't offer diplomatic messages during sunspots, so the diplomatic message has to have been from one of the human players. I had better not--on the turn after I learn that there are sunspots--get a message that says you accepted my diplomatic offer!

[jtsisyoda]

I think I agree, too.

[Net Warrior]

2181 to Gaians

[Chip_Buckner]

2181 to Yoda.

[jtsisyoda]

Please resend, as I haven't received anything.

[Chip_Buckner]

Here you go. (This time my "sent" log records that it went out, though.)

[jtsisyoda]

2181 to Rubin.

I'll be out of town until Sunday night... about 32 hours from now.