Fungus Resources

[Yxklyx]

The rulebook is incorrect. Fungus gives 2-3-3 (not 2-2-2) when all the required techs are learned. Combined with Manifold Harmonics and Planet greater than 2 you get a whopping 3-4-5 (4-4-5 for Gaians). I once posted about massive Mind Worm problems around the time I was building Voice of Planet - apparently what happened is that when I discovered Threshold of Transcendance all my squares (I had converted all to Fungus) started producing 1 more mineral pushing me over the pollution limit.

Centauri Ecology: +1 NUTRIENT
Centauri Psi: +1 NUTRIENT
Centauri Genetics: +1 MINERAL
Matter Transmission: +1 MINERAL
Theshold of Transcendance: +1 MINERAL
Centauri Meditation: +1 ENERGY
Temporal Mechanics: +1 ENERGY
Secrets of Alpha Centauri: +1 ENERGY

Note that you don't get NUTRIENT/MINERAL/ENERGY/RIVER bonuses with fungus. The big pain with converting to fungus is all that forest you earlier planted which keeps growing back over your newly created fungus. Hovertank Formers are a pretty good idea and the Xenoempathy Dome comes in really handy (fungus production doubled).

For SMAC 2, it would be cool to have either a Forest Resistant Fungus Facility or a Secret Project that generates Fungus in an everincreasing patch centered in the base where the SP is located in.

[moi]

also, gaians get +1 food in fungus squares, and then there's the manifold harmonics of course.

[xeno7667]

For me it's one of the unanswered question of the game if I am playing a green faction like the Cult or the Gaians:

Remove or preserve Fungus?

Forest is the big Fungus Remover. So if you want preserve Fungus you can forgot a "forest game".

[Shai-Hulud]

I think the sad thing about the Fungus concept is that by the time it's a viable resource, Transcendence is just a few years ahead of you. And if you're doing fine and aiming for the Transcend victory there's not much point in planting the Fungus. Although I usually turn Transcend and Economic victory off if I want longer and more challenging game. In any case, I think the Fungus kicks in too late in the game, especially for green factions which should be able to use it much sooner.

[Yxklyx]

Well, if you slow the end game down as in my other thread, fungus would be more useful. I have had little problem foresting everything and then fungusing everything after I build the Manilfold Harmonics.

[Shai-Hulud]

I have had little problem foresting everything and then fungusing everything after I build the Manilfold Harmonics.

"Little problem"?

Anyway, that thread was interesting but did it actually found any good solution for the late game tech boost? It seemed that tech was coming in so fast in the end-game that you really couldn't stop it?

[Yxklyx]

Ways to get Fungus planted quickly:

1. Use Fungal Payloads on your continent
2. Xenoempathy Dome (increases fungus planting speed)
3. Build lots of Hovertank Super Formers (lots of your forests will probably not have roads) - Use the minerals from disbanding your Infantry Super Formers to help build the Hovertank variety.
4. Generate lots of pollution

I'd say just forget about the bonus squares and rivers - at least remove the forests on them since you don't want those trees spreading again - perhaps you could leave a mine or soil enricher in place on some of the bonus squares. When you're all done start removing the roads (if you have the XED) but leave the mag tubes in place.

Slow the Tech Rate by editing alphax.txt at different points in the game and reloading. Seems like a simple solution.

[Shai-Hulud]

Those are all good tips though I hate to be dependent of any project in any strategy because they aren't that easy to build when competing against humans.

Slow the Tech Rate by editing alphax.txt at different points in the game and reloading. Seems like a simple solution.

Does editing alpha.txt really affect ongoing games? And if it does, when is the best time to slow down research and how much? It's starting to get complicated and impractical if you ask me. Maybe I just use the Tech Stagnation option and damn the designers . Now when you think of it though, isn't technology discovered at faster rate each instant?

[Fitz]

I've always felt that the latish game fungus production is not something to help developed bases, but rather new and conquered bases.

In other words, forget about trying to convert your forest and other impovements into fungus (unless your formers have nothing else to do). Rather, look on it as a boost to quickly get any late game (probably strategically positioned/needed) new bases, and occassionally bases conquered from the AI, transformed into productive bases.

I find this factor kicks in for me once you have 2/1/1 from a fungus tile (through Cent Psi tech without the Gaians).

[Lee Johnson]

Well, I just finished a Thinker-level game playing as Dee, where an extended war against the Drones meant that I played an abnormally long period of time in the upper branches of the tech tree. I did build the Manifold Harmonics, and let me tell you, getting 4-2-4 on every fungus square really saved my bacon. I was ripping out farms and forests everywhere, and painting the countryside pink! It was enough for me to score a sneaky come-from-behind Ascent victory over Morgan, who was way ahead of me for most of the game. Maybe you don't need to go hog-wild with fungus in most games, but I don't think I would have won that one if I hadn't.

[Sikander]

The problem with fungus is that it just doen't produce nearly as well as other terraforming options at any point in the game. I do use it as Fitz does however. Late in the game when I'm dropping colony pods about the globe from orbit it is great to be able to lay down productive bases which don't require any forming. Still, for per square productivity nothing beats a condensor / farm / soil enricher in the middle to late game, or a borehole in the early to middle part of the game.

[Shai-Hulud]

The problem with fungus is that it just doen't produce nearly as well as other terraforming options at any point in the game.

Well, it does produce a lot in the late game! Especially with Manifold Harmonics. But I agree that since it really becomes an option just prior to Transcend(that is, if you play with that victory enabled, which I don't) it most often is not worth an effort.

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Shai-Hulud
Well, it does produce a lot in the late game! Especially with Manifold Harmonics. But I agree that since it really becomes an option just prior to Transcend(that is, if you play with that victory enabled, which I don't) it most often is not worth an effort.

Yes it does produce very well for something that takes no former time, or not all that much former time. In terms of per square production in the late game though, it doesn't produce as much as one might guess in comparison to Condensor / Farm / Soil Enricher squares.

Assumption: It's late in the game and your faction (the Gaians) is cruising up the upper reaches of the tech tree. You have built or captured every SP. You have 16 food sats, 16 energy sats and 16 min sats, and transcendi and engineers poulate your bases. Your econ is at +2 and you are about to terraform a square which is flat and moist. You are trying to decide whether to plant fungus there, or a condensor / farm / soil enricher there.

Planting fungus will yield 4 nuts, 4 mins and 6 energy. The nuts will also yield enough food to produce and maintain a specialist (a transcendi), and with the sat bonuses will yield another 2 food, energy and mins, which will support yet another specialist and another food, min and energy. The totals are:

Excess food = 1
Mins = 7
Energy = 9 raw + 16 from the two Transcendi = 25
This is awsome! A total of 33 FOP!

Building a condensor / farm / soil enricher will take a lot more former time. The square will produce enough food (6) to feed it's worker and two specialists. It will also give you 1 energy. The three population will also add 3 more food, mins and energy, which will produce another specialist and another 1 food, min and energy.

Excess food = 1
Mins = 4
Energy = 5 raw and 24 from the transcendi for a total of 29
This produces a grand total of 34 FOP. However there is one more option available for this square, which is to use a crawler to harvest the food and forego the single energy produced by the +2 econ rating. With the worker converted to a transcendi the net gain is another 7 energy, for a grand total of 41 FOP.

Obviously you may find that the former time and psych produced by the extra transcendi for the condensor / farm / soil enricher is less valuable than the minerals and raw energy and less former time required for the fungus. However you may also find that the conditions described here are ideal for the fungus square, especially the fact that the faction chosen is the Gaians, who receive a food bonus in fungus. Additionally, you can find a lot of fungus just lying around the map, while your chances of finding a condensor / farm / soil enricher are nil.

For my play style, I will use fungus where I find it, but I won't plant any. My old bases will already have a lot of condensor / farm / soil enricher squares, and these squares will have had crawlers on them for a century already. They will have produced as well or better than any other terraforming throughout the game, and the fact that they still do so just makes my inertia all the more pleasant, and allow my formers to move out and continue their work in the undeveloped areas of the map.

[Yxklyx]

The nuts will also yield enough food to produce and maintain a specialist (a transcendi), and with the sat bonuses will yield another 2 food, energy and mins, which will support yet another specialist and another food, min and energy.

You've lost me here. What do Sat bonuses have to do with anything? They're just supplying 16/16/16 to all your bases, right?

If you just build condensor/farms/enrichers where are you getting all your minerals from? Sats only? What happens when a Solar Flare hits?

P.S. I don't use crawlers - makes the game too easy.

[Fitz]

The maximum bonus from satellites to a base is = to the population. So you can consider each population to add +1 nut/min/energy. This is what Sik is doing. Quick example:

Base size 3, Cloudbase Academy project (free Aerospace Complex in base), minimum of 7 satellites of each type.

Worker one on Forest (1/2/1) workers 2 & 3 on Farm/Solar on rolling terrain, altitude <1001 (2/1/1).

Total nutrients = +1 Forest, +4 Farms, +3 Sats, +2 base square = 10. This supports a population of 3 with 4 excess nutrients. When the base grows to size 4 you add a engineer (earlier in game than transcendii), and now gain one more sat nutrient (total 11, excess 3). Base grows to 5 you add another engineer, and gain another sat nut (total 12, excess 2). Base grows to 6, another engineer and sat nut (total 13, excess 1). Base grows to 7, another engineer & sat nut (4 engineers, total nuts 14, no excess) and stabilize. This is all off of 3 workers, and seven satellites.

Total minerals:
Size 3) +2 Forest, +2 rollings, +3 sats, +1 base square = 8
Size 4) +1 sat = 9
Size 5) +1 sat = 10
size 6) +1 sat = 11
size 7) +1 sat = 12 minerals

Total energy:
Size 3) +1 forest, +2 solars, +2 base, +3 sats = 8
Size 4) +1 sat, effective +5 engineer (2 lab, 3 ec) = 14
size 5) +1 sat, +5 engineer = 20
size 6) +1 sat, +5 engineer = 26
size 7) +1 sat, +5 enineer = 32

So lets sat you plop a base down with the Planetary Transit system, and you already have you Cloudbase Academy and 7 of each satellite up, and you quickly terraform the three squares. With this minimum amount of work, you will have a base that will stabilize at population 7, produce 12 minerals, and produce 12 energy plus an effictive 20 more energy from engineers (unaffected by efficiency!). Add facilities & crawlers, and you have a powerhouse.

Now imagine if you add Tree Farms, or terraform those squares to boreholes and Condensor/Farm/Soil Enricher. Or, in the late game use fungus squares producing even greater nut/min/energy from each square.

I generally follow a mostly forest, some borehole or C/F/S strategy. My rule of thumb is to consider all bases as if they had no crawlers, so if an invader comes in trying to destroy my productivity, I don't suddenly start starving all my bases. This has saved my ass a couple of times in LAN games, but the price you pay is lack of a maximized economy (as an all specialist approach would give). This means that fungus squares that exist are extremely helpful in the late game. But, I rarely bother trying to reterraform my homeland, since the forest will grow faster than I can plant the fungus.