World War AC

[Tokamak]

JustinSane: Hmmm.... I was experimenting with alphax.txt before I made SMAC Down, and one of the things I tested was the disable unit parameter (specifically, the native units). I thought that I loaded up a clean alphax.txt before making the scenario, but apparently I did not.

According to the scenario editor documentation, the game will default to whatever *.txt files are in the same folder as the *.sc file, but in my experience, this is simly not true. The scenario seems to 'remember' what the files were when it was made, and then sticks to that. You can alter faction.txt files in mid-game using the "reload faction" option, but I don't think an analogous command exists for the aplha.txt files

Come to think of it, I may have also turned global warming off, as well. I guess I'll have to get started on a 'patched' version to adress these issues. No biggie. I can do that when I make the non-Crossfire version. Hopefully, both files will be ready sometime late tonight.

All: I 'm a little uneasy about posting multiple files to Apolyton. Does any kind hearted webmaster out there have some extra space?

Also, the "official" SMAC Down is already in the works. I have some pretty wierd ideas that I'm testing out right now. The wierdest is to have a significant alien force act as a third power, adding a whole new dynamic to the gameplay. I'm sure that this is a great gimmick. I'm not so sure that it is sound game design. We'll see...

Here's what I'm trying to accomplish with the custom map: the "hostile" borders should be broad, without any natural choke points. Every Ally should share a land border with at least one Coailition faction (maybe two). I'd also like to place some interesting landmarks in the 'no man's zones,' to make holding onto your perimeter more important. The AI should be channeled towards the enemy by judicious placement of special resources.


Any thoughts or suggestions? I'm not exactly a professional, so your advice is at least so good as mine.

[Cybergod]

Tokamak, related to AX version, if you are using share tech with infiltrated factions then all the Yang/Miriam/Santiago Coalition need to do is do the Empath Guild or infiltrate everyone to get EVERYONE's techs, so there is not much of a way of getting around it, except by disabling probe teams (bad).

BTW, I don't think that the aliens' addition would really sink in. This would completely deconcentrate the point of the scenario/mod.

[Cybergod]

[commenting on above post]

OR disable the Empath Guild project!

[death_head]

The Empath Guild messes with my mind

[Tokamak]

Yeah, the inflitration thing is a problem, but not a fatal one. In the games that the bad guys got the governorship you end up falling behind in tech, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. Most people (myself included) have never played a game where they weren't at least on tech parity with the AI (and usually, they're signifiacantly ahead of the AI). It's a different kind of experience for a different kind of game.

Actually, the badguys -always- get the governorhip, because the stupid Allies won't vote for each other! I guess I'll have to auto-pact them to each other. That way, it will just barely be possible to vote Lal in if one of the Allies gets the Empath Guild.

I hear you about the aliens. I have some compelling ideas regarding them, but I'm afraid of disrupting the flow of play. I think I'll make them "optional" (ie release two versions of the game)

death_head: I was concerned that the AI wouldn't be able to handle a rover rush. I'm glad to hear that it defended itself just fine.

[Blake]

Great scenerio!
I'm up to year 2164.

The first thing I did was grab doc flex and built a foil to go ally hunting, then researched to ind auto (I found morgan and the scum immeditately declared vendetta, I toyed with the idea of invading his island and taking all that terraforming for myself... but deciced it went against the theme of the scenerio).

Upon getting Ind Auto I started operation VW (basically mass crawler production), and I'm happy to say it suceeded, I JUST beat the spartans to the VW, altough I used the crawler upgrade bug (well, some dont even consider it a bug..). I then started on the PEG (taking the idea from Vel, I'd researched to it as a backup if I missed the VW, as it turned out I got both, as well as the empath guild)

I'd been running planned, which was what ticked morgan off, but with the VW I switched to FM, and repaired my relations with Morgan, the only tech of value I got from him was Biogenetics and Ethical Calculus, and I had to grovel on my knees before he would sign a pact. Atleast he didn't demand cash.

When the initial enemy scouts came knocking I upgraded nearby formers. I'm not too fond of black ops but this game I've built dozens of infantry probes, and 3 bases are on full time probe production (4 including my HQ, which is building skimship probes)

I knew I'd have to prepare my defenses and decided to space bases 2 tiles apart along a river which ran parrellel to the border between me and yang/miriam (each base was built on a sensor ofcourse), I made sure to carefully forest the sides of the river to prevent probes from speeding in, and stacked the bases with atleast a couple of probes, and paired up plasma armour military or former units along the forest barrier (one idea I'm particullary fond of is pairing up military untis with a crawler).

The main attacks started at about 2155, I probed away the initial units, getting some veterans courtesy of Yang, the main enemy attack was focused on the borehole area, which I fortified with the probed units and plenty of probe teams.

This turn (2164) I by chance probed a hive 5-3r-1, trained infantry unit, which was hiding in fungus. This was cool because I didn't have any of those components (except the chassis ), so I'm doing some big-time reverse engineering. Previously the best weapon was laser.

I havn't lost any bases yet, but now swarms of hive and believer infantry are attacking my river defense perimeter, which is lightly fortified compared to the borehole area, when the gatling weapons start turning up I'll really have something to worry about. Also I burnt all my (700) cash on probing and rush upgrades, altough thanks to the VW, PEG and pact with Morgan I'm making a tidy ~100 energy per turn.

My current bee-line is towards D:AP, which should arrive within the decade, hopefully by then the sunspots (grrrrr) will clear up so I'll be able to use my Empath guild and get eco-engineering from Dee (I forsee many SE quickies, yessss). Hopefully I'll be able to keep a monopoly on the commlinks and prevent anyone from calling an election, until I can bribe the others to vote for Lal.

BTW, wouldn't the planetary datalinks be the most awesome SP imaginable for anyone which manages to get it? Prehaps it should be disabled.

[Tokamak]

Blake: I found your report to be very interesting. You're taking a much more proactive stance than I have, and it seems to be working well. Congrats on the VW! That's a real accomplishment in this game.

Even though the AI is set to "cooperate with player," they can still be real PIAs. Oh, well.

Sunspots, you say? I thought I turned that off. *sigh* One more thing to fix tonight. You can fix the sunspots for now by using "edit scenario parameter" command and setting the "spot turns to go" field to zero. Don't worry, no-one will consider you a cheater

I'm not too sure about the Planetary Datalinks, either. It would be a good way for the Allies to recover if they fall behind (ie lose either the Empath Guild or the election), but it could also become outrageously overpowered. I'm definately thinking about trimming it for the offcial release.

[Blake]

Well, actually this is my second try The first time I played in a simialler way, but without sea scouting or the SP's. I found myself falling way behind in tech, unable to run FM because of the lack of VW, I didn't have rovers, and yang and miriam probes were having a field day. Also I had got the reload "twitches", reloading to replay a turn is cheating and after doing that a few times I realised that any victory I gained was actually worthless anyway.. and I had heaps of new ideas to try...

So I restarted and decided, regardless of cost (to my expansion and research) I WAS going to get the VW, that (with the later addition of the PEG) put me in an excellent position to build up my probe armies, and throw cash into bribing and upgrading units. I also applied virtually all of Vel's combat strategies, like upgrading formers for defense, and liberal use of infantry probes.
I have a sneaky suspicion that one of my strategies is going to be building a fully fortified highway down to one of yangs (or miriams) bases and hitting it with infantry probes to get tech, it'll be my own not so subtle channel into the federations datalinks

[Tokamak]

I found that the Xenoempathy Dome allows for some very useful tricks. I ended up building a "throw-away" base just a few squares from one of Yang's outposts, in the middle of a fungus field. That base then devoted itself exclusively to probe production, sped up by cash and a fleet of donated crawlers from the other, more prosperous bases.

This "training station" could then launch multiple probe attacks per turn against Yang. Thanks to the Xenoempathy Dome, even an infantry probe could get there and back in one turn. The ones that survived to reach elite were armored and sent to hot spots on the frontier (actaully, the hottest spot at the time was that base!).

After I was consistantly draining 80-100 credits every turn from Yang, I thought I must be really hurting his cash reserves. Then I checked the inflitrator's report. He was making 300+ credits every turn! That sure burst my bubble...

[Tokamak]

It's been a productive late night for me (well, as productive as a night playing a computer game can get, anyway). The "patched" version of SMAC Down should be attached with this post.

LOTS of bug fixes. Native units should work properly now. The random events will no longer plague you. Dee, Morgan and Lal no longer have a +3 Planet score (I have NO idea how that happened!). I made some other minor adjustments. They're all detailed at the end of the readme.



I've run into some trouble making a non-X version of the game. As predicted, the "techshare" syntax doesn't work with SMAC. However, my faction.txt (being an X document), doesn't list what the older "discover tech" syntax is! Without that, I can't finish. Does anyone out there with SMAC know the exact syntax for this power? It should be somewhere in your faction.txt


Work is going well on the custom map. I've already laid out the basic groundwork for the first continent. If RL doesn't interfere too much, it'll be available within a week. This would be a good time to post any ideas that you would like to see in the new version.

Also, I reiterate my request for hosting somewhere. With both X and non-X versions coming out, along with alien and non-alien versions of both of these, PLUS the inevitable bug fixes, I might really be abusing Apolyton's hopitality by posting all my files here.

[Blake]

As of 2174 I have D:AP, fusion power, env.eco, and a brand-spanking new HSA (Bwahahahah, nothing can stop me now!). The only problem is I'm too busy upgrading my military to missile fusion to rushbuy those tree farms! (let alone fusion labs) Best thing is the evil alliance is still researching HEC, meaning I have the D:AP monopoly for a few years, wahoo! In fact I have the best technology of any faction...

As I research D:AP I had a really tough descision to make, the lineup of incredibly attractive tech included:

Orbital Spaceflight
Centurai Mediation
Neural Grafting
Planetary Economics
Adv.Eco.Engineering
Organic Superlube

Goddamn this scenerio has some hard choices
I REALLY wanted AEEco so I could start some serious terraforming, Orbital spaceflight for nutrients, and ofcourse so I could wave PB's at my enemies, Cent Med for the free roads (and easy probing)...
I took Neural Grafting, because ultimately the military advantages of MMI and bio-engineering are just too good to not have.

---

At 2195 I have clean chaos gas choppers, and believe me, miriam and yang know it! Unfortunately currentely Miriam, Yang and Santiago are holding the race for the Cloning Vats, and I'm not invited, short of a (VERY!) lucky probe action I'll lose the CV to one of those buggers. And Yang called the election, and now everyones favourite chairman is govoner of the not-so-free world. Also Lal got his scrawny ass kicked off the face of Chiron, altough he escaped in a pod. Dee and Morgan, altough not researching very fast are still both alive. About the only techs I've got have veen Adv. Sub atomic theory from Lal, and Adv.Eco.Eng from Morgan.

Anyway, I can see no alternative but to wipe Miriam and Yang from my continent, this should be easy said as done, because sophoric gas chaos choppers make VERY short work of even silksteel defenders, and I still have the monopoly on D:AP, so no advanced air defense for the evil alliance, and I have my whole empire producing either chopper shells or drop infantry, and the drop infantry I'll be using will be drop scout patrols, plasma armour just cant stand up to elite chaos infantry anyway, and drop scouts are cheap.

The main blemish in my plan is the fact most of the enemy SP are on the FW sea continent, which means I wont actually gain a terrible lot from the yang/miriam purge (other than quadrupling my population, which is always handy...). Seeing I've got choppers coming out my ears a switch to green was in order, and then I cranked econ to 100% for rush buying.

I've never actually done a full scale chop 'n drop before, so I'm quite excited.

The research rate of the evil alliance is still going to be phenominal, I wouldn't mind betting I'll have to 'crawl my way to transcendence.

My nastiest suprise so far was when Yang bagged the XenoDome, and suddenly a hoarde of rovers came screaming up the fungal highway, luckily I had the aircraft for ZOC blocking.

---
I was thinking about the voting, and how the bad guys (seeing they get 2 empires each) get a massive votes boost, how about changing their faction.txt's to have 1/2 normal votes, I *think* this is possible to do. That would put all the factions at a more level playing field during voting...

The human faction starting with the WP is a very good idea, especially seeing there is not a hope in hell of actually beating the AI's to it!

The strongest SP's (Datalinks, Cloning Vats, maybe Cloudbase Acadamy) should probably be set to destroyed.

A final suggestion, how about setting it so destroying bases is NOT an atrocity, then you could take a more brutal approach to warfare (including strategic retreat).

[Tokamak]

Gads! I can't beleive I'm still awake... stupid insomnia. I probably pull an involuntary all-nighter once or twice a week

I'm pleased that Yang was able to exploit the Xenoempathy Dome. That's good news (well, for me, anyway).

So Lal got whacked, huh? He was in the weakest postion, so I'm not too surprised. In the sims I've run, the strongest Ally has typically been Dee, who consistanly manages to overun the Spartans, of all people! I still haven't figured out why this happens. If anyone has any insight on this let me know. I very much want to know what kinds of conditions causes the AI to succeed or fail.

If you do acheive "Manifest Destiny" on your continent, youi'll be in a very strong position. I did an INSANE amount of terraforming in the enemies' homelands. Probably, too much, honestly.


Choppers are something that I've been concerned about for a while now. The problem is that the AI adamantly refuses to build these things. The problem is exacerabated by the fact that it doesn't unstand how to move its forces in AAA protected stacks, leaving it very vulnerable to helicopters. For maximum challenge potential, I recommend I self-imposed prohibition on choppers (a few empath choppers for worm duty are probably okay). It sucks to just arbitrarily ignore such a big aspect of air power, but it's the only way to level the playing field.

Also, I've actually gotten more enjoyment out of this game when I didn't build the HSA (although, in truth, Yang has always beaten me to it in SMAC Down). Having to adjust your defenses to deal with massive covert assualts adds a whole new dimension to your strategy.

Nukes are something that I'm wondering about, too. I'll be very interested in how the AI handles them. The Coalition is set to "commit atrocities wantonly," so expect many bases to stay lit up, even after dark What I'm really worried about though, is that the AI won't know how to use even basic safeguards against Planet Busters (ie Def Pods and Flechettes).


As for your suggestions (which are much appreciated , by the way)...

When the Allies are auto-pacted (as they are in the patch), it is just barely possible to get an Ally into the governorship, IF you have the Empath Guild bonus AND if you've gotten a pop boom done in time. The Allies only have a chance at the election if the player makes it a major prioty, which is both fair and desirable.

The Datalinks will definately be gone in the next release. I don't understand why you want the Cloning Vats and Academy removed, though. I would very much like to hear your reasons!

As for the base destruction thing, it actually did cross my mind, as well. However, part of the fun of this scenario (at least for me) is trying to be the "good guy" in a world controlled by the villians.

[Blake]

it's only midnight here

Basically the CV is just overpowered In the hands of a human player it makes the game much easier, moreso than any other SP.

The CBA is a SP which also has a very dramatic effect on the game, the Areospace complex is a very versatlile facility, and to be given them for free is so good it's almost cheating In he hands of the AI it has a twosided effect, while making there bases much harder to attack from the air, simply by destroying the CBA base the AI is suddenly wide open to ariel attack.

The thing both SP's have in common is a dramatic benefit to both economy and military, especially when using orbitals.

Both SP's present an interesting challenge in the hands of the AI though.

choppers:
You could always change them like was done in SNAC, for memory:
Movement: 10 -> 4
Cost: +2 (10 -> 12, I think)
tech: MMI -> Homo Superier

And even severly crippled the chopper is still an incredible chassis.

Dee:
What happened in my game was:

Santiago captures gaian base
Dee mind controls it back along with most of santiagos attack force.

And that just repeated, with neither faction gaining territory for any length of time.

[Tokamak]

The thing with the Cloning Vats is that by the time I finally get it, I've already maxed out my main bases, anyway. By the time hab-domes show up, Eudaimonia makes pop-booms almost trivial to acheive. I would very much like to see this project fall intot he hands of the AI, though. Since the AI doesn't understand how to pop-boom, it could make a difference.

Good points about the CBA. I remember Vel worrying about it in his guide, too.

I really like the thing about the choppers. It keeps them from totally dominating the game, without making them useless. They server a more defensive role with the shorter range, and the higher cost makes the "suicide missile" a less attractive option. I'm definately considering implementing this.




Midnight, huh? You an Australian by any chance?

[JustinSane]

I'm having a blast trying this! It is the most fun single player scenario I've seen However, it would take a lot of the fun out of it if the stronger SP's were disabled.. After all, if the artificial idiot can't exploit his tech advantage, it might be a bit easy, and the strong SPs basically are the pay-off for high tech. Either way, this is extremely cool