The Worst Thing About Multiplayer...

[Googlie]

My experience is that with C4 or X2, if pacted, maps are constantly exchanged, so that you see military action taking place with pact brothers.

If you are not pacted, but have exchanged maps, you'll see such action for the next move only, then it's static until you next exchange maps.

I've never been able to see other factions' actions (wow - rhymes) without these prerequisites unless within sensor range or unit viewpoint range.

If I see an IoD and move off, tho I am still within my foil's visual or radar range, I see the whole four tile movement of the IoD next turn, but not thereafter.

(btw, when popping sea pods, if you have a choice - and if you are not trying to capture wildlife, say you're popping with a transport, always position your unit on the seaward side of the pod - if you are able to move at least one tile to seaward after popping an IoD, it'll always head for the landmass)

Googlie

[Helium Pond]

Okay, on a completely different topic, can anyone explain something that just happened in one of the PBEM games I'm playing: without the required tech, and without any secret projects, Miriam (an AI player) has apparently performed a Terraform UP. Both myself and the other human being in the game noticed a new land bridge between Lal (the human) and Miriam, both of whom were on self-contained islands. Miriam is nowhere near Ecological Engineering, and as I said, has no Secret Projects at all. The land bridge is too small to be the result of a pod having popped, because as far as I know, pod that cause earthquakes always make huge mountains the size of Mount Planet. So, is the AI just blatantly cheating? Any other explanation? Sorry for going off topic, but what the heck, right?

[stuntman19]

I have never seen the AI terraform up or down. Once I popped a pod that connected two land areas, I think it is just a rare thing. It didnt create the normal mountain formation but extended out to connect the land pieces.

[Black Sunrise]

Regarding Miriam
It was a pod. I've never seen her have the brains to build a land bridge, though I have seen small earthquake pods.
Black Sunrise

[Simpson II]

The AI *will* terraform a land-bridge, if circumstances are right. I've seen if a number of times, after I first started playing Smac and the AI could keep up enough to be cocky. It will only do it across a one-square gap, though, and it is relatively rare.

As to her not having the tech, I understand that before the Smac v4 patch the AI could build bunkers without the correct tech. The interface between the game and the AI is far from clean, I'm afraid. You could add this to the bug-reporting thread if you are using SmaX, and are reasonably sure it wasn't a pod.

[Empress]

The worst thing about multiplayer to me is when the game seems to slow to a hault do to lag and the fact that you can not make changes in your city until it is your turn, which is inefficent.

[Googlie]

Empress:

That's why IP play with simultaneous moves clicked on is so cool.

You can do base maintenance, talk to other faction heads (non human), change build queues, SE weightings, hurry build et al while the AI or other players are moving - then make your unit movements turn when it's over to you.

Fast and efficient. Only slows in 3 or more IP Multiplayer when two are in diplomacy and you're waiting with fingers drumming.

But you can't beat 100 turns in an evening with real opposition

G.

[RedFred]

Yes, Googlie has made me a believer in IP. (But not a "Believer", fortunately)

Not only can you use the period when the other player is moving to manage your empire in just about any way but moving units, you can take the occasional break. In a SP game, I'll often discover that several hours have just evaporated as I do one turn after another.

As with some of the other people in this thread, I found that it was a bit of an adjustment to have less battle information available in IP. But not a huge problem.

[Nigel]

I was just experimenting with a hotseat game, Hive vs UoP. At the end of the unversity turn, i was shown a mindworm attacking a UoP patrol. Does this happen in PBEM, where the last player to move sees any AI action that occurs before the next player's turn? That would seem to throw the balance of MP off in many instances.

[Misotu]

Interesting question. I can certainly confirm that I have often seen other MP players lose units to native lifeforms at the end of my turn. This occurs in an area where logically I should not be able to see anything - away from my territory, no units close by etc etc. It doesn't really help me at all - it's just interesting to see someone's precious probe foil or transport destroyed by an IoD far away from me ...
I play quite a lot of PBEM and I can't state for sure that I'm the last to play in any MY when this occurs. I often am the last to play, however, so there may be a correlation there.

[MariOne]

I am/have been the last human player in the round in many pbems.

Such player is the only one to see the "Planet's Turn".
I have been the Believers with AI Lal more than once, and I can tell that I saw PK units moving only when they were in my proper Fog-of-War scope, but I could see worms landing/moving on continents where I never was (I just traded maps). I am pretty (but not fireproof) sure that this was not necessarily when the worm-victim was a Pactmate of mine. I think I recently saw a spartan ship attacked by an IoD, and I have just informal truce with them. But maybe that's because the IoD *began* its move inside my scope...
OTOH recently a Pactmate of mine popped few worms in the nortpole cap (far from me in all ways), and while I saw them during my turn, I lost their sight as they moved after it. Maybe the screen flipping was too fast.


At the beginning of SMAC pbems, back in OWO and ACOL, it was sometimes said that for fair play the LHPR (Last Human Player in Round) should have neutrally reported to every player the alien movements he got to see. But it was never officially agreed upon, and after few attempts I dropped the practice myself.
There are two main cons to it:
- often the moves are so fast that you can't actually realize what and where is happening exactly.
- the report would be heavily biased: it would be restricted to the map portions the LHPR can actually see

I now sometimes only pay attention to worms menacing my current pactmates, and give them the less vague possible hints.

[Nigel]

So it's not any AI factions, just mindworm actions? Are these haphazard or does the Last Player see all such attacks on their own units?

All these mysterious mindworm occurances; could some... entity... be trying to... communicate?

[MariOne]

I'll try to explain myself better.
Last Human Player sees:
- all AI moves (which come AFTER him of course) which he could *legally* see (i.e. directly involving your units, bases, or sensors)
- supposedly ALL native life moves: all the ones regarding him, but also the ones in his visible map regrading distant and nonpacted factions. (but this is not always guaranteed, or sometimes too fast to see)

Remember that worms appearing because of your ecodamage, do NOT occur at the end of the round, but at the beginning of *your* turn, thus the Last Human Player can't see them.

Anyway, that should be easy to test if you want: start a self-hotseat game with Lal, and pay attention.

[mark13]

Regarding mind worms moving when you shouldn't have been able to see them, could this have been because you had spotted them earlier that turn and then moved away? If this was the case, then such knowledge would appear logical, as the mind worms were there when you spotted them, and thus had no opportunity to move from that location. This happens a lot with alien IoD units. However, the units do disappear when their turn comes around and they move away.

I have not yet experienced native life movement in distant parts of my territory, as mind worms often pop out of nowhere and attack my Formers

I have, however, witnessed mind worms popping up from IoD units within range of an enemy's base, but only those with which I have an infiltrator (which would appear justified).

[Rynn:]

^