Alien artifacts

[Simpson II]

RedFred,

Ah, I see! In that case of course you and Hydro are correct. You want to cash in those AAs immediately. I tend to forget about blind research, it's very much not to my taste. (btw, the ten techs includes tree farms. Getting them up by 2160 is one of the main pulls of that bee-line!)

[Didymus]

I say cash AAs in for *something* without too much delay. My reasoning here is fairly simple: any time a spore launcher attacks my base, my AAs always die. (Unless I have an artillery unit there, of course. But normally I tend to place artillery mostly in coastal bases.) This is extremely irritating!

If you get useless (from your point of view) techs, hey, trade 'em for something you want. If you're lucky, you can sell them to several factions in the same turn. Also, trading techs tends to make the AIs friendlier.


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John 6:68
[This message has been edited by Didymus (edited August 24, 2000).]

[Adam_Smith]

This is a good thread.

What I do with my AA's depends entirely on which faction I'm playing. When I used to play Miriam mostly I used to save my artifacts. That way if someone researched an important discovery like D:AP or Pre-Sentient Algorithms then I would start cashing in AA's in hopes of randomly getting that tech. It works good when you can't probe for what you need.

As Domai I tend to just cash them in as soon as I get them and get that momentum going.

As Cha Dawn I use them for SP's and prototyping. The reason is the low industry and the huge cash reserves. Prototypes take a really long time for Cha Dawn, and let's face it, he usually has at least 4-5 AA's around. I usually use 1 AA for an impact rover prototype, and I use 3-4 on special projects. I usually build two special projects before I discover Ind. Auto. I only use 1 or 2 AA's per project and I rush a good portion of the project with my energy reserves. The early projects I pick are usually the WP and the Empathy Guild. Later on I just cash them in for techs.

[Googlie]

I've never considered using an AA for a prototype rush.

depending on the faction, I'll either use them for tech advances (if I have enough NN's) or, more typically, hoard them for key SP builds.

If Dee or Cha, I'll spend them like crazy, figuring I'll pop enough to keep the momentum going

If Miriam, I'll cash them in as soon as I can, to try and keep up tech-wise - if Zak, I'll hoard, and use them on the later SP's that boost science and cost more.

If a Prog faction, I'll definitely use them only to rush SP's for the energy boost (using cash to rush the base facilities)

In one PBEM I inherited, a pactmate has 12 AA's lying around in various bases - whenever a techboost is needed, they're available.

(And the AI hoards as well - in one game I was playing - as the Hive - I subjugated Lal and gave him all my tech - he had six AA's and cashed all in for techs the next turn and gave them to me - like WOW, right off the power chart with the techlead plus the pop adition from the slave)

Course as Sparta you don't need to prototype and as Morgan you can afford to buy your prototypes.

G.

[Beör]

Hydro and RedFred have an important point.

When playing blind research, linking an AA is just like making research the hard way: The worst that can happen is that you now have one less useless technology to research.

When playing directed research, saving AAs till after the important beelining (Ind Auto, Restriction lifting, tree farms) may be a good idea. Of course as stated by several it will depend on your faction, your tactical and diplomatic situation, and somewhat on your starting position.

This has made me wonder: What about trading Techs. Of course there are other considerations here, like if you want to be friendly to someone or help them stand up to a common foe. But still, if I am playing directed research, buying a tech outside my beeline might slow me down considerably. Should I refrain from making such a trade - all thing s being equal?

One more thing: Are you sure that the tech gained from linking up an AA is completely random. In my experience early on I get Applied Physics more often than not! Usually I don't really need that tech being a builder and all.

And finally, I still don't know how the costs of Tech are calculated - ANYONE?
[This message has been edited by Beör (edited August 28, 2000).]

[Simpson II]

Beör,
When playing heavy-builder style I don't trade tech with the AI until I'm good and ready. A couple of 'bad' trades will set you back 10 years or so in getting TFs up, and the snowball effect magnifies this an awful lot.
As a momentum player, I get my very short beelines done and then steal what I want, so the question is moot.
As a hybrid, this is one of the questions that can win or loose games for you. I am playing a game with Paul where my poor judgement has put me in a horrible positition techwise. He is the University and I am the Gaians, and I've had consistently more tech than him until last turn (2181), but he has made far more use of what he has. I underestimated the huge effect on my tech cost, leaving my plans dead in the water.

So know what sort of tech burden you can handle, and only trade for thing that you can directly use, would be my way of playing. The techs will still be there, just make sure you are in position to get hold of them (by hook or by crook .)

[Paul]

In that game that Simpson mentioned he was indeed ahead in tech until I met the Spartans. Apparently Santiago had been researching in a completely different direction than I had. This allowed me to trade for a whole bunch of techs, but also doubled my tech cost. I was researching at 4-5 turns per tech, but now I am at 9 turns.

[Beör]

Simpson II

By hook or by crook - LOL I like that

I am not quite sure I understand what went wrong in the game you and Paul mention. Can you elaborate?

Have you been trading too many 'useless' techs thereby slowing down your important techs? Or are you simply isolated in a mediocre spot?

Anyway - go probe his pants off . Or hit him where it hurts with your natives.

By the way: native probe teams. There's a nice thought for further development by Firaxis .

[Beör]

Aaargh - double posted.

Sorry about that.
[This message has been edited by Beör (edited August 28, 2000).]

[Simpson II]

Beör,

It's difficult to describe how wrong that game went! I took a legitimate tech lead at the start, simply generating more RP than him from turn one; not bad considering that I do not and have never had a monolith or energy special in my empire, and that I wasn't able to use the only measly 3-square river until I built forests (every single square was flat!!)
However, at around 2150 I broke the golden rule: get Ind. Auto before trading beyond that. I was tempted away.. it took me until the 2170's to finally get it (probed from Morgan when I was 2 turns from getting it myself.)
The reason Santiago has all those techs is that I was 'coordinating' the AI research with the aim of getting to pre-sentient alg and the HSA, with fusion straight after. Several of them were heading in the right direction, they just needed someone to collate and spread tech about slightly. This is what tempted me.

Unfortunately, I wasn't able to deliver the tech rate to do what I wanted. There are a couple of reasons for this, not just the increased tech cost (which was horrific), but which I will not reveal for reasons of factional security . However, I've ended up ensuring that Paul can get fusion power by 2200 if he wants it, and he already has a SP in production, so he can change directly to the HSA. How would you like your game wrapped, sir?

If I had correctly estimated my future position then I could have done things very differently. A 'safe' bee-line, gaining techs as I needed them, and one or two other changes would still have made me no. 1 in tech, while giving me a viable position in other respects. Hindsight's a wonderful thing. Maybe next time.

[Beör]

S II

Aaah - now I get it. You wanted to have your cake and eat it: A solid basic research and trading to guide the AI research to suit your goals.

Ironically, Paul reaped the fruits of your efforts, shot ahead of you, and will now get the HSA, and then D:AP and WHAAAMMM your dead meat.

Nice try, though. Had it worked out, you would probably have hauled his behind

[This message has been edited by Beör (edited August 29, 2000).]

[Beör]

BTW:

It's nice that someone can get the umlaud in Beör right.