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  • best SP's for Deirdre?

    What SP's do you prefer when playing as Deirdre, and why?
    "A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for. Martin Buber

  • #2
    Obviously the Big Four: WP, HGP, VW and EG. The other late early and mid game biggies are good too: PTS, HSA

    As Dee I take much more interest in Xeno Dome since it allows combined native/conventional attacks/defense. One item that I noticed is that it is much more useful at sea than on land since the seas are large and relatively undeveloped and land is infested by forests and other non-fungus terrain. Moreover, with higher moves of sea units (IoD with four and cruisers with 6 vs 2 for rovers and 1 for infantry) losing 3 movement in fungus is a bigger deal since you have more to lose. One word of warning - once you have Xeno don't expect to capture any more worms.

    Another Gaian SP is MCC. With all those free IoDs floating around, and free passage through fungus for ships with Xeno, you can easilty control the seas when their moves go from 4 to 6 and 6 to 8 (or is it 5 to 7? I don't build many cruisers except as transports)! These two SPs work very well together.

    Why control the seas? Simple: Unity Pods. They get scarfed quickly on land, but if you go to sea early and get lots of IoDs harvesting these goodies you will get a good advantage. I also like plopping a few worms from IoDs on undeveloped/unexplored islands and continents to scare up worms and harvest pods (and AAs!). Worms captured far from home have no support cost, and even those who do are support free in fungus. The IoDs are always nearby to take the Artifacts home!

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    • #3
      I agree with Hydro-- most of these Sps are nice with pretty much any faction

      Later game, I find I like the Longevity vaccine for deidre more than I do for most factions-- Most of my other factions are in FM but deidre is often in Demo/planned/wealth for a perpetual pop boom and TWO more content citizens is big.

      The Cloning Vats and the CBA are much more valuable projects but I think that they are high priority for every faction
      You don't get to 300 losses without being a pretty exceptional goaltender.-- Ben Kenobi speaking of Roberto Luongo

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      • #4
        I forgot one of the Gaian Sea Triad - neural amplifier. This gives your IoDs a huge edge in naval combat since any attacker has to beat your 'trance' in psi combat! That means they are at a 3:2 disadvantage unless their naval or air unit is Empath equiped (all attacks on sea or air worms are 1:1 - there is no 50% bonus to attack like for land worms). Another nice benefit is that when you pop a pod and a hostile IoD comes out you will almost definately win the defense - otherwise it is 50-50 (assuming you are attacked).

        Anther reason to get neural amplifier is to deny it so someone else. Trance plus NA is a death sentance for worms, which decline in value enormously after late early game anyway.

        One SP that is almost useless for Gaians or anyone else is Dream Twister. By this time conventional is much more efficient and cost effective. It is kind of nice to have when Green/Cyb to have a killer attack with Locusts, but it typically isn't worth it. If you are pressed there are always more important things to spend resources on than Dream Twister. Plus, this SP comes so late the game is over by this time anyway...

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Hydro
          Obviously the Big Four: WP, HGP, VW and EG. The other late early and mid game biggies are good too: PTS, HSA

          As Dee I take much more interest in Xeno Dome since it allows combined native/conventional attacks/defense. One item that I noticed is that it is much more useful at sea than on land since the seas are large and relatively undeveloped and land is infested by forests and other non-fungus terrain. Moreover, with higher moves of sea units (IoD with four and cruisers with 6 vs 2 for rovers and 1 for infantry) losing 3 movement in fungus is a bigger deal since you have more to lose. One word of warning - once you have Xeno don't expect to capture any more worms.
          ive havent gone for the xeno dome, as ive relied on worms for funds. I guess as it i fill out empty areas with bases and my worm harvest goes down thats time to build xeno.
          "A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for. Martin Buber

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          • #6
            PTS works particularly well for D. You can plunk down bases in as yet unterraformed areas and keep your 3 population going on eating fungus.

            CN is another great one to deal with those early game very green units.

            IMHO so-called Green SPs like the Dream Twister, Neural Amplifier, Pholus Mutagen and even the Xenopathy Dome are nice but somewhat overrated.

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            • #7
              I would remove the HGP from the big four for Gaia. With no FM and a +2 efficiency I don't see the need. I'd take WP first, then VW, then EG (EG last mainly because it comes later). I'd probably go for PTS before HGP even.

              And never, ever build Dream Twister if you don't have Neural Amplifier. Then it's completly useless. But since it's easy to grab I'd get it as Gaia, but not sacrifice too much to get it. I tend to go all native when playing Gaia on SPlayer though, since it forces you to play differently. And Locusts are damn convinient on large maps.

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              • #8
                Any SP that increases base stability is good in my book. But, if I have to chose among the big 3 it would be WP, VW, then HGP. EG does come later.

                I like taking the Gaians to GA/wealth ASAP. HGP helps a lot. Another plus of HGP is it lets you expand more in your first phase and second phases, and you can get about 4 more bases w/o drones being your first citizen. This is really good since it allows you more depth, a greater production base, and more energy centers to compete better with the FM Planet-rapers out there (who need to be brought to heel).

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Hydro
                  Any SP that increases base stability is good in my book. But, if I have to chose among the big 3 it would be WP, VW, then HGP. EG does come later.

                  I like taking the Gaians to GA/wealth ASAP. HGP helps a lot. Another plus of HGP is it lets you expand more in your first phase and second phases, and you can get about 4 more bases w/o drones being your first citizen. This is really good since it allows you more depth, a greater production base, and more energy centers to compete better with the FM Planet-rapers out there (who need to be brought to heel).
                  You took (some) of the words right out of my mouth. Wealth + GA is a good setting for the Gaians.
                  He's got the Midas touch.
                  But he touched it too much!
                  Hey Goldmember, Hey Goldmember!

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                  • #10
                    I would agree with Hydro except regarding the EG -- in single player I would totally ignore it. Its effect is to provide part of the benefits of the governorship and to make the governorship easier to attain early. With proper exploration and diplomacy, you will be able to gain the governorship fairly early anyway, and once you have it, the EG is useless. Early production capacity is spread too thin already without spending it on this project -- use your production to build the many other useful things available at that point in the game.

                    The Longevity Vaccine is indeed a killer SP for Gaia, especially when combined with the PTS -- new bases start at size three (i.e. are never lost to worms) and can focus on building their mineral flows IMMEDIATELY.

                    With a near-infinite supply of spaces that provide 2 nutrients (fungus) and with a police rating always high enough to use one cop, Deirdre can also take very good advantage of the PTS (matched only by Miriam, who can rush a first-turn RC even in Democracy). Even before the Longevity Vaccine, there are police infantry to handle drone problems.

                    The PEG is as useful for Deirdre as for anyone... sure she won't have the energy boost of FM, but she'll be raking in energy from boreholes so soon it doesn't matter.

                    Since Deirdre can't go FM, building a large offensive air force will be fast (+2 industry) and painless (no pacifism, ironically), so she might as well build a large offensive air force, and thus the CBA can often be even more useful for her than for other factions.

                    USC
                    "'Lingua franca' je latinsky vyraz s vyznamem "jazyk francouzsky", ktery dnes vetsinou odkazuje na anglictinu," rekl cesky.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by UnityScoutChopper
                      I would agree with Hydro except regarding the EG -- in single player I would totally ignore it. Its effect is to provide part of the benefits of the governorship and to make the governorship easier to attain early. With proper exploration and diplomacy, you will be able to gain the governorship fairly early anyway, and once you have it, the EG is useless. Early production capacity is spread too thin already without spending it on this project -- use your production to build the many other useful things available at that point in the game.
                      Interesting - in my current game ive gone for EG for tech swapping, etc. The way in Civ2 id go for marcos embassy. But in SMAC i can exchange for diplo contacts, and exploring is even more lucrative than in Civ2. So EG may be less worthwhile than ive assumed.
                      "A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for. Martin Buber

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Hydro
                        Any SP that increases base stability is good in my book. But, if I have to chose among the big 3 it would be WP, VW, then HGP. EG does come later.

                        I like taking the Gaians to GA/wealth ASAP. HGP helps a lot. Another plus of HGP is it lets you expand more in your first phase and second phases, and you can get about 4 more bases w/o drones being your first citizen. This is really good since it allows you more depth, a greater production base, and more energy centers to compete better with the FM Planet-rapers out there (who need to be brought to heel).
                        yeah i like HGP cause ive been using deirdre for early rapid expansion. If i try a different strat, i might have less need of it.
                        "A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for. Martin Buber

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Anther reason to get neural amplifier is to deny it so someone else. Trance plus NA is a death sentance for worms, which decline in value enormously after late early game anyway.

                          One SP that is almost useless for Gaians or anyone else is Dream Twister. By this time conventional is much more efficient and cost effective. It is kind of nice to have when Green/Cyb to have a killer attack with Locusts, but it typically isn't worth it. If you are pressed there are always more important things to spend resources on than Dream Twister. Plus, this SP comes so late the game is over by this time anyway... [/QUOTE]

                          I'm still kind of new at AC but one thing I did like was getting Dream Twister (having Neural Amp to deny it to my enemies) and letting loose with a tidal wave of worms.

                          If you have a lot of worms with DT and NA it is hard to hold them back.

                          Good things about worms (and other native life forms).

                          1. Never go obsolete
                          2. Bypass base defenses (very useful if you are in a close fight, don't have blink yet and your opponent has tachyon shields, Aerospace Centers, and decent well armored AAA units).
                          3. The worms seem to be cheap
                          4. The Locusts have a good range and can occupy cities (which can be useful in the time before you death spheres
                          and for those bases you can't drop into (those having Aerospace centers and without roads or rivers leading to them).
                          5. If you have NA a tougher target to destroy.
                          6. Complemented/Enhanced by other SPs that increase life cycle.
                          7. A well-protected worm wave combined with Dream Twister is unstoppable.

                          Bad things about worms (and other native life forms).

                          1. Artillery can do horrible things to them. (Before I learned about clean minerals I discovered that it was a good idea to have several Drop artillery units made by mid-game to ensure that I could them as a 'fire brigade' to drop into any base threatened by a big mind worm fungal pop. A few volleys of fire from dropped in units followed by chopper or ground based assaults kept the worms at bay and the treasury overflowing.)
                          You need to protect the worms from artillery.

                          2. Locusts and IoD are expensive.
                          3. Attacking AAA units with Locusts is usually fatal for the Locust.
                          4. The worms are slow. Only one move per turn unless on a road/fungus/or mag tube. Sometimes by the time they get to where you want them you already have blink choppers with orbital insertion or blink death spheres, which makes the worms redundant.


                          Like many tactics in this game it helps to use a combined arms approach to either the attack or defense. Use the capabilities of one type unit to offset the weaknesses of another.

                          Note: I find it important to use choppers to recon ahead of the worms to find and take out any artillery. As stated above artillery can do horrible things to worms. If you do have to move the worms close to artillery it is essential to avoid stacking them so at least some of them avoid being hit hard.

                          One thing I'm not sure of - I think (from playing) that shard artillery will do more damage to a worm that impact artillery, but I'm not sure. I've heard that trance artillery is more effective than non-trance but I don't think I've seen the effects (generally, the only artillery that hits my worms is naval based because I'm usually able to recon far enough ahead of my worms with choppers to clear out the ground base artillery before they get in range).

                          Feel free to let me know what I've overlooked. I only have the basic SMAC with the original 7 factions so there may be some obvious things I've left out that I don't know about. I havn't found out where to buy the expansion for SMACX.

                          Mead

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                          • #14
                            I disagree that Dream Twister is completely useless.

                            One thing to keep in mind is that the DT bonus as well as the faction's planet rating are used for PSI Attack weapon in the same way as they are used for native units. Worms too slow? Maybe a PSI Hovertank will do the job. Dream Twister combined with a ridiculously high Planet rating (+5 with Dee with Green/Cyber) makes for one tough assault unit. Not sure if a negative Planet penalty from Free Market makes it worse.

                            Only problem I've found is aircrafts using PSI Attack have trouble getting past enemy aircraft with Air Superiority.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by igtenos
                              I disagree that Dream Twister is completely useless.

                              One thing to keep in mind is that the DT bonus as well as the faction's planet rating are used for PSI Attack weapon in the same way as they are used for native units. Worms too slow? Maybe a PSI Hovertank will do the job. Dream Twister combined with a ridiculously high Planet rating (+5 with Dee with Green/Cyber) makes for one tough assault unit. Not sure if a negative Planet penalty from Free Market makes it worse.

                              Only problem I've found is aircrafts using PSI Attack have trouble getting past enemy aircraft with Air Superiority.
                              I like DT. In several of my games I've survived and won only because I was able to get the DT.

                              My earlier post was quoting a prior post that didn't like the DT. My comments followed the [/QUOTE]. My apologies if it appeared that I disliked DT.

                              I usually like getting DT after ensuring I got the Neural Amp early on to deny it to the other factions. After, or in anticipation of building the DT, I like making an army of worms. It helps having as many of the Xenoempathy Dome, Cyborg Factory and Pholus Mutagen SPs as possible to get life cycle growths for the native life form made; supplemented by bio labs and centuri preserves.

                              I've found using the DT with a well-protected mind worm wave of mature boil or better worms; combined with a green (+2) SE (for another +20% PSI) is unstoppable.

                              I've never done it being Deirdre. I'll have to try it.
                              A mind worm wave with DT for +50% PSI combined with a +5 planet +50% PSI must be phenomenal.

                              Question: When you use PSI armed traditional units do you give them empath?

                              Does this further increase their PSI effectiveness against Non-Native life forms to: +50% for DT, plus +50% for (Green, Gaian, Cyber), plus +50% for empath?


                              Mead

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