Arrrrg, Spartans.

[Adalbertus]

I think once I tried Spartans and after some 50 turns I was p... off mainly by the Industry hit.

On the other hand, the Drones are so incredibly powerful due to their +2 Industry. In no time, you've got 18 bases which live under the same restrictions as others with 9 bases (due to the -1 drone). And then, the research hit doesn't count because of sheer numbers.

I guess, a real builder game with the Spartans in very much restricted. You've got to play hybrid and let the others build for you. And this is exactly what was said here. Without attacking, you can't take advantage of the +2 Morale which is Spartan's main strength.

[Jamski]

The Spartans, as I always say, have the strength of Flexibility.

The other factions do one thing well, but Spartans do everything OK.

The ability to run FM while at war for no penalty, or to quickly get elite infantry or to boom at will make the Spartans able to run an economy as good as or better than Dee or Lal, while still putting the bite on in a war at the same time.

Remember just ONE high morale unit poking about sends a human opponent into the "oh crap here comes trouble" mode, and they start "over defending" - your one "attacker" forces them to put 2 defenders at every base... and BOOM who has the Industry advantage now?

Its what the Spartans can do BEYOND the faction stats that make them shine.

-Jam

[Sikander]

I'd rather play the Pirates as a hybrid though. They have their drawbacks of course, but they don't have an industry penalty, they have another useful tech, and they can run any SE choices they want. And they don't have to build sea bases either, though they do need to build transports ASAP in order to drop their colony pods on land.

[Jamski]

They don't have an Industry penalty apart from the huge cost early game of SeaCPs and Seaformers, and very big lack of forests

-Jam

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Jamski
They don't have an Industry penalty apart from the huge cost early game of SeaCPs and Seaformers, and very big lack of forests

-Jam

You could park next to land, build a transport and use it to drop a former on to the land, and build only land colony pods thereafter. Yep it's slower, but you do start out with at least two more minerals than the minimum due to the free tanks and the shelf mineral bonus. On the other hand your opportunities to meet and greet are much better than the Spartans, as your initial unit moves four and can visit different land masses. You also have two techs to trade, and some security from your initial bases being at sea. Damn, I have to play a Pirate game soon, it's been too long.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Originally posted by Sikander


You could park next to land, build a transport and use it to drop a former on to the land, and build only land colony pods thereafter. Yep it's slower, but you do start out with at least two more minerals than the minimum due to the free tanks and the shelf mineral bonus. On the other hand your opportunities to meet and greet are much better than the Spartans, as your initial unit moves four and can visit different land masses. You also have two techs to trade, and some security from your initial bases being at sea. Damn, I have to play a Pirate game soon, it's been too long.

Assumes Look first

Turn 0 - Set colony pod next to land
Go to workshop and configure a land rover
Set build queue to land transport

Base 1 total mins is 3
Land transport finished on ar about turn 4


Turn 1 - Set second colony pod next to another continent
set build queue to land transport

Land trasnport finished on or about turn 5


Build queues on first two bases looks like

1. Land transport
2. Stockpile energy between each unit
3. Colony pod
4. Former
5. Garrison
6. Colony Pods.

[Jamski]

That's so slow though.

SO painfully slow...

-Jam

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Jam,

How so?

I've found it a faster start than most factions.

First set of (2) colony pods are out around 2111 ish.

[Jamski]

How do you have enough minerals for land transport and colony pod, in a SEA base, by 2111? That's 10 turns for the two units.

-Jam

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

I redid it last night. Its actually 2114 or 2115.

Land transport = 20 mins

10 free + 4 turns at 3 mins/turn

Colony pod = 30 mins ( I had a brain cramp and remembered it as 20) thats 2 min carryover and 10 turns at 3 mins/turn

Total turns for 2 pods = 14 turns or 2114 ish 2115 ish course you can rush it a bit.


By the by, setting the colony pods takes 2 turns via transport. In place by 2116 ish.

Move transport onto coast. in prvious turn. Move pod onto transport Hit "L". move transport one square. Next turn Move transport another square. Activate Pod and hit "B" Pod set in 2 turns regardless of terrain (saving bounces from fungus)

Good catch Jam. Regardless, tho' its comparable IMO to most other factions.

[CEO Aaron]

Isn't stockpiling energy between builds an exploit?

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Yes but considered normal IIRC for pbems.

[Proserpine]

And of course if you haven't already done so, read Vel's excellent SMAC strategy guide for tips on how to get the best out of ANY faction . . .

[Impaler[WrG]]

Arogon: When I play a switching game I only play each faction until the point that it hits #1 overall power graph, not for 100 years. I think switch to the lowest faction and work them up to #1 (or get creamed if their soooo far behind). Thus I switch more often and "spread the love" between the factions a bit more evenly. Using this standard you would probably not create such a super power out of the first faction you play.

[Zeiter]

Hmmm, I don't really get why people don't like the Spartans very much. They can easily pop-boom. They can run FM. They can run planned to get rid of their industry penalty. They have awesome morale. They can use 2 military units as police, or 3 w/ police effect doubled if they run PS. If you are a builder type, you don't have to run power. Knowledge works just great.

The Spartans are usually very playable. But the AI always screws them up, sometimes not even bothering to build any formers for a long time. That right there will kill your infrastructure and prospects for growth and development. It sounds like this Spartan game was more the product of bad AI management than an inherently weak faction.

Also, perhaps the time frames should be shortened, so that one faction doesn't get gigantically powerful. Maybe switch every 30 years. That way, there's a good chance that you'll get to play every faction. Then once you've played all of them, switch one last time to the weakest faction and try to beat the game from there.