Zsozso's attempt at fastest transcend on huge map

[zsozso]

I have started an attempt on the "Fast transcend on huge map" challenge proposed by Hendrik in the thread: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...threadid=73935

Playing SMAX (extension pack), settings, options:

• Random huge map
• least ocean
• Dense coulds
• average fungus
• average erosion
• difficulty: citizen

Rules:

• Victory by transcend only
• Do or die
• Spoils of war
• No random events

Factions: I am playing Gaians (Deidre), all 6 opponents are pirates.
Basic strategy:
David Byron's moth technique, i.e. thin expansion by building colony pods after colony pods in each base and planting them in a tight formation (every second square as terrain allows, not wasting time by removing fungus or leveling rocky terrain). Note: I am not building any military units, not even a single defender for the bases. Instead, I rely entirely on captured worms: capture the first one by the initial scout patrol, then troll the fungus all the time with the increasing number of worms. This has the benefit of being free in 2 ways: [list=1][*]No minerals spent on building them[*]They are all independent, thus no minerals for supporting them[/list=1]
Further benefit of such trolling of fungus: those aliens that cannot be captured shall be killed, gaining some bonus energy (planet perls).
Having +1 ecology, then later switching to Green will make it very
unlikely that I lose any such battle.

I know it sounds insane not to play the University for such a challenge, but the above explanation might explain my choice of faction. Anyway we'll see how it goes. I will post periodic progress updates on this thread.

The starting map is attached. Note, that I'm playing it on Linux (ported by Loki Software), so I'm not sure if it loads up ok in the windows version of the software - give it a try and let me know, please.

[Archaic]

You'll find that there's limits in the game code to how many independant worms you can have (After a certain number, they're auto-attached to a base), and how good your chances are at capture (>6 worms owned=Significantly lower chances of capture).

Then again, you're playing Citizen.

[zsozso]

I know about the limit - played some challenge games like OCC with such an army already. However, the limit changes based on your eco rating, so it can be pushed. It also applies independently to each type of unit, i.e. when you have reached your limit on worms, you can still capture spore launchers, sea units and locusts of chiron. And the citizen option might help too - as a matter of fact, this level of difficulty (or lack thereof) is quite unknown to me.

[Archaic]

As far as I know, it doesn't change the worm capture limitations, though the fact those limitations make a distinction between Spore Launchers, Sealurks, IoD's and Locusts is a new one to me.

Still though.....Citizen? Please, there's no honour in a win on that level. :-p

[MariOne]

( understood)
I think that only strict frame is
Huge
No lame loophole cheats (SE flipflops for Industry & diplomacy, Drop bug, F4 bugs, Q Stockpiling, terraforming turn crediting, homing on pactmates, DemonBoils by patrolling)
No Ctrl-K or previous Scenario preparation
No reloads

All the rest, including setting, rules and options and level, should be reported for documentation only but is entirely up to each contestant's choice.
It is yet to be proved that, *on Huge*, Citizen actually makes for the easiest solution and Transcend makes for the hardest.

For one, I would be curious to test the self-7-hotseat record David Byron suggested

Indeed, should I ever apply to the Challenge, I'd more see it as finding a game benchmark together rather than comparing individual skills.

[Jamski]

Originally posted by MariOne
For one, I would be curious to test the self-7-hotseat record David Byron suggested

With all respect I would be curious to know how long that will take you (still on huge, right?)

-Jam

[Archaic]

In the game, it probably wouldn't take that long, assuming builder factions, but in real life......you wouldn't *have* a real life.

[Jamski]

I don't have a "real" life anyway. I'll have a go.

Or maybe not.

-Jam

[Archaic]

I'll probably end up trying it one of these days. I'd be interested to know though what the restrictions on factions allowed to be used are.

[Hendrik]

Zsozso-
I am honored to have you taking up this challenge! However if you did it on citizen difficulty then it wouldn't be within the rules stated at the beginning of the fast transcend thread:

If anyone has transcendance saves from before year 136 on transcend difficulty then please post them, otherwise consider this a challenge!

I am sorry for all the confusion related to this, I have never organized a challenge of any kind before, I didn't expect so much controversy.

I think the Gaians moss style would be pretty interesting, if you can transcend before year 150 with them I would be highly impressed.

I saw someone using the gaians "moss style" very effectively in an MP game... they expanded rapidly without building roads, and only used formers for forests.

Once he got the PTS he was amazingly far ahead on the power chart, and if he had had any idea how to use crawlers and his economy he could have stayed first.

[Capt Dizle]

I know I did a sub 136 on huge transcend but I don't have any of my old saves. I'll probably try this at some point but I prefer a different sort of challenge, wherein everyone plays from the same position.

What does homing on pactmates mean Mose? And you don't get demon boils from patroling unless you set waypoints, right?

We should also speak to the tactics of base gifting or allowing bases to flip or be captured. I assume that you can play either SMAC or SMACX? And free choice of factions, i.e. all university for example.

[zsozso]

Originally posted by Hendrik
Zsozso-
I am honored to have you taking up this challenge! However if you did it on citizen difficulty then it wouldn't be within the rules stated at the beginning of the fast transcend thread:



I am sorry for all the confusion related to this, I have never organized a challenge of any kind before, I didn't expect so much controversy.

I think the Gaians moss style would be pretty interesting, if you can transcend before year 150 with them I would be highly impressed.

Ooops I have missed that line...

Anyway, I'll continue now, because I have a good start on this citizen stuff (however lame it is ) then I'l make another attempt on transcend level - the real stuff.

[Mongoose]

I think Morgan might have been the best faction to try this with at citizen level. IIRC, at that level, there is NO penalty for switching production. This means that any SP can be bought at 2ec per mineral. SPs can be purchased before Industrial Automation allows the crawler upgrade tactic. There is virtually no reason not to be able to build all the SPs at citizen, if you have cash.

[Hendrik]

jimmytrick-
Do you remember what faction/tactics were used in that early transcend?

If we want to do it as a challenge, I still want the option of making it possible to play as several different factions, because I know some people would want Zakharov (most), and others may want other factions (I like Morgan).

[MariOne]

JT, "homing on pactmates" was a concise reminder for when you home one of your units (Ctrl-H?) inside of one of your pactmates' bases, *keeping* its control but waiving off its support (IIRC that unit becomes "independent", not namely but de facto, that is, despite the display charges it on the pactmate base, he won't be paying its support neither, I don't know about pacifism effects).
Not that it would find much application in singleplayer, but as it's the exploitment of a bug making no sense in gameplay, I deemed it an obvious cheat here too.

Yes regarding waypoints, afaik.

I don't see why we should restrict base gifitng.
Re AI base *trading* instead, while it's banned in pbems, here it all depends whether we more see this as a benchmark quest or as a skills challenge, as I said.

In the benchmark perspective, I think it's a *legal* (albeit too easy) game mechanics, on the same line of the Citizen level tricks envisioned by Mongoose & David Byron.