Communism vs. zero-point Fundamentalism

[yavoon]

nearly true capitalism has existed. remember true capitalism allows for public works, like roads and hospitals and ****. its not 100% of everything=private.

communism doesn't work because ppl twist the the plan. its because its simply unworkable, it relies on the principle that ppl are altruistic, but they aren't. so ur snuffed.

[knowhow2]

democracy doesn't wok in the sense of REAL democracy as the Greeks once practice. Should we then not aim for democracy as we do today (many countries are close enough to make it fair for most).

[Xian]

Originally posted by yavoon
nearly true capitalism has existed. remember true capitalism allows for public works, like roads and hospitals and ****. its not 100% of everything=private.

Thre has never been a government that never interfered with corporations, so lassaiz faire never has happened, and thus, true capitalism has never happened

TRue capitalism has the same problem communism has: human nature. No one can resist taking power from another in the name of humanity.

and im pretty sure Adam Smith would not have tolerated Public ownership of anything, but then again, maybe capitalism doesnt have to be limited to his original design...

There has never been true democracy either, since

1. even in greece, you had to own land to vote
2. Except for Sparta, woemen cant vote

Keep in mind that the greeks hated REAL democracy (I think aristotle wrote democracy is "mob rule"), what we call democracy is constitutional govt.

And no other nation not even america America, has even come CLOSE to a constitutional govt.

America is a representative govt., you almost NEVER get to directly vote on anything, you just choose a party (all of which are currupt and lazy) and hope for the best.

[yavoon]

Adam smith recognized the need for public holdings like roads. so sorry, true capitalism has nothing to do w/ 100% private ownership. I think he also recognized the monopoly spiral effect of true capitalism, so again he didnt even believe complete deregulation.

so for the quintessential true capitalist, he knew capitalism wasn't an idealogy, but a practical method.

[Frankychan]

ahem....

...sorry just had to clear my throat.

TRue capitalism has the same problem communism has: human nature. No one can resist taking power from another in the name of humanity.

I believe this is true. The fact of the matter is this. Human nature is greed...(Morgan would be proud). Capitalism is corrupt because of the exploitative nature it brings. The CEO/PDG (if you're French)/Board members all line their pockets and instead of cutting their pay as well, would rather lay off tens of thousands of workers so their stock raises a quarter of a cent (exaggeration).

Even though I am a proponent of communism...a stalwart advocate of communism, it does have its disadvantages as well. Even though the leader may be 100% altruistic, eventually this person will die and maybe the heir apparent is 100% greedy.

I don't want this thread to warp any further than it already has but like my friend tells me (who happens to be a die hard capitalist and knows I am a die hard communist):

The Bull of the Stock Market versus the Soviet Bear.

I just like this quote so I had to put it in here!

[Akka]

Originally posted by Xian
1. even in greece, you had to own land to vote
2. Except for Sparta, woemen cant vote

Mmh, I may be wrong, but it seems to me that you had only to be born Athenian to be a citizen, and that all citizen could vote ?

In Sparta, I don't think there had any voting at all. It was a monarchy/despotism, where the older were supposed to rule.

Ok it's been long long time I did not had a look at my greek history, so I can just say stupidities, but well I only risk to look like an idiot, so

[Cybergod]

Re: Communism vs. zero-point Fundamentalism

Originally posted by vostok
Zero-Point Fundamentalism (knowledge/fundamentalist) because its the only option in the game where you literaly get something for nothing: a net gain of +Efic and +Morale, and no negative bonuses.

You can also get no negatives by running Power and Eudaimonic, which gives you +2 SUPPORT, +2 ECONOMY and +2 GROWTH. If you wish, you could add the Police State and Green so your total attribs. would look like this:

+2 POLICE, +4 SUPPORT!, +2 PLANET and +2 ECONOMY

The only thing not good with this is that Eudaimonic comes too far late in the game for me to use it....

[Xian]

Also the hive recieves no negative efficiency from plammed