Announcement

**Sikander** · May 25, 2003, 18:29

Chab,

It isn't hard to avoid the problem altogether if you know how to use Treefarms / Hybrid Forests etc. properly, and of course refrain from using a lot of attrocities. It's a lot easier than having your terraforming washed away, at least IMO. Whether it is more fun is up to you.

**Rubin** · May 25, 2003, 19:04

... erh, how do you avoid the eco-damage done by the other factions?!? That produces global warming too, doesn't it?

**BustaMike** · May 25, 2003, 19:51

Originally posted by Rubin
... erh, how do you avoid the eco-damage done by the other factions?!? That produces global warming too, doesn't it?

Eliminate them

**Lazerus** · May 25, 2003, 20:40

did you ever dream about a base producing more than 500minerals per turn????

I get that anyways, 200 Hive bases all with tree+hybrid farms and cent presrve

**Sikander** · May 25, 2003, 23:08

Originally posted by Rubin
... erh, how do you avoid the eco-damage done by the other factions?!? That produces global warming too, doesn't it?

I haven't seen this in my games. With the way the AI terraforms it's a wonder that they manage to produce enough minerals. I suppose that they could get there by attrocities, but they just don't seem to do that in my games, perhaps because I don't and they tend to be pacted against me so much. Admittedly I rarely play a game past 2250 or so, as it is usually in the bag by then.

**Rubin** · May 26, 2003, 04:58

I've had games, where I ONLY planted forests - and the polar caps were still melting due to global warming. I noticed the huge numbers of boreholes build by the AI (especially by Morgan and ... yes, Deirdre!).

So, I think all factions contribute to the global warming...

**Jamski** · May 26, 2003, 09:52

Global warming is bad bad bad

Say goodbye to all those coastal boreholes

Say goodbye to those rolling forests

Say goodbye to the poor AI that can't cope with it

-Jam

**Bella Hella** · May 27, 2003, 10:40

i'm just getting back into SMAX, so i haven't gotten to that point in many games lately. but in my last game as zak, i started getting insane fungal pops near the end, when i was producing a LOT of minerals. when i looked at the base screen, i found that i was getting 3 of every resource from a square of fungus (i guess due to SPs and improvements?). so it turned out BETTER for me to have a lot of fungus around than normal improvements; at least i think it did. it was kind of neat because it tied in with the storyline - i was going for trancendence and it was all about being one with planet anyway.

i want to try a game sometimes where i build no improvements except forests and fungus.

i remember rising sea levels being a pain, though, but at that point you could always just raise the land.

2 related questions - what improvements can be built OVER fungus (besides roads/tubes)? and do you guys ever use those tectonic (?) missiles to cause earthquakes and raise a bunch of land in one shot? what is the effect of those missiles environmentally (are they bad for the environment)?

i think global warming can work for you or against you. if you're firmly in the lead it doesn't seem to make a lot of difference.

**Lazerus** · May 27, 2003, 11:39

found that i was getting 3 of every resource from a square of fungus

4-4-5 i think you can get it upto with the right techs and SP ?

what improvements can be built OVER fungus

once you get the appropriate technology, anything if i remember correctly

do you guys ever use those tectonic (?) missiles to cause earthquakes and raise a bunch of land in one shot?

i've never used them for serious offensive purposes, sometimes when i've just been toying with the AI. You have given me an idea for saving time raising land with formers though, but then i doubt they'd be available early enough and all work would be done by then.

**CEO Aaron** · May 28, 2003, 00:26

I usually try to _manufacture_ fungal pops during the midgame to increase my income through planetpearls, but I hate having to waste former-turns raising terrain when I could be planting more bases. Thus, rising sea levels is just a pain in my ass which I try to avoid. Fortunately, due to the cleansing effects of building tree farms and centauri preserves, I'm rarely experiencing those problems nowadays. If I want to increase the clean mineral limit now, I just build and scrap a few more preserves, and grab a little cash for my trouble. Could I make a base which produces 500 minerals? Sure. But it would be much easier and better to produce 20 bases producing 50 minerals each.

**Chab** · May 28, 2003, 06:25

at a certain point cent farm tree-hybrid farm are way too weak to reduce the pollution effect...

when your base is getting more than 200min, it's almost impossible to stop the pollution...even if your base is surrounded by forest...

in the late game when i manage too reduce my production to avoid the Global Warning effect, i do it only to have time for crushing the other faction who's still alive because it's easier to destroy a land-based factions...after that,if i want to make the greatest score, i turn all my economy to fungus (3-4-5 per square techs+SP (4-4-5 with Deidre))...

has you said Bella Hella, global warning can work for you or against you...they are several advantages to build a sea-based empire, sea former can move faster and sea-base can never be affect by a probe attack (even if it's possible,i've already try it, but i've never seen AI make a sea probe...), sea-base are producing much more energies than land-based city, without any pollution effect...the misadvantages is that sea-base are weak, and difficult to protect if you dont have enough war ship...

even in transcendance mode, the AI is too stupid,it keeps cheating and doesn't play in long term...there's no more challenge for me...so i play for the score,and that's why i say that global warming is not a threat,i turn my economy to fungus, i leave one faction with one base(lvl1) and i spread my bases all over the world...

i've used tectonic missile to make a link between two continents and then attack trough this hole...you can surprise your ennemies this way.

except road and tub mag nothing can be built on fungus, but in SMACX i've already seen a borehole cluster on funus...

CEO Aaron,is 20 bases producing 50minerals really better than one producing 500min???imagine a project finish in 2turns...ascension to transcendance takes 4turns...think about it

**Lazerus** · May 28, 2003, 06:53

with the amount of bases you've got have 10 hardcore bases and the rest just plugging away with 50minerals.

**Flubber** · May 28, 2003, 09:34

Originally posted by Chab
at a certain point cent farm tree-hybrid farm are way too weak to reduce the pollution effect...

CEO Aaron,is 20 bases producing 50minerals really better than one producing 500min???imagine a project finish in 2turns...ascension to transcendance takes 4turns...think about it

Two points-- as far as I know, the effect of treefarms, centauri preserves, hybrid forests and temples of Planet is unlimited-- if you have built 200 of them in the game after the first fungal bloom then you could have a 200 mineral base producing no ecodamage. There have been detailed articles on this point on the board.

and yes 20 bases with 50 minerals IS better than one 500 mineral base. The Ascent to transcendence should take ONE turn to complete by cashing in all the crawlers you have available-- except in the early game, no project takes more than one turn to build . . . if you delay in Multi-player, someone else might build the project from under you.

Edit -- spelling and to clarify hoe the tree farm effect starts

**Flubber** · May 28, 2003, 11:11

To follow up on my point, a 500 mineral base is a waste !! Other than producing Secret Projects what do you build with the thing, that does not waste its immense mineral capacity ? You could probably produce some monstrous unit with best weapon best armour and expensive special abilities but you would be building it just to build it and not for any real purpose. Almost NOBODY will build the super expensive unit simply because it is impractical . . . there is no benefit to compensate for the cost

The flexibility of multiple bases are simply superior. Consider if you had 1 500 mineral base and I had 8 bases with 50 minerals each- ( I am giving up a 100 mineral difference to prove a point)

On turn 1, you can build a "something"-- It can be an expensive something but you can only build ONE. I build 8 choppers, rushing enough to ensure a 10 mineral carryover. After 4 turns, I have 32 choppers , or 16 choppers, 6 probeships and 10 drop units-- or 32 probeships --- and you have 4 super duper units or 4 great facilities. Oh and if a secret Project is available, I will build it in one turn, on the turn I get the tech.

Simply put, going for such a massive mineral base ignores

1. cashing in crawlers towards Secret projects
2 upgrading crawlers
3. creating shell units to be upgraded
4. the flexibility of multiple build queues
5. The risk in putting so much in one base--
6. the benefits of rushbuilding and the fact that only 10 minerals are carried over to the next build

I have never had even a 200 mineral base-- I never saw the point as I had enough energy coming in to rush almost everything I needed anyway.

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