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Sparta-Angel relations part II

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  • Sparta-Angel relations part II

    The other thread has already crossed 500 posts, so here's a new one.

    Link to the previous thread.
    Contraria sunt Complementa. -- Niels Bohr
    Mods: SMAniaC (SMAC) & Planetfall (Civ4)

  • #2
    How about posting this as a new thread in the general forum? It might provide some roleplay fun.

    Interfactional Court of Justice: Case #1

    The Spartan Federation & The University Protectorate
    versus
    The Data Angels

    Subject: Illegal loan of energy credits

    ***

    While the University Protectorate can according to the MY 2154 Treaty not conduct any independent foreign affairs, they have a considerable economic and political freedom concerning internal matters. For example while many sectors of Spartan economy are government controlled, the University Protectorate has a free market with a privately-owned bank system.

    It appears that the Data Angels have made abuse of this. Crypteia has after years long thorough investigation concluded that 200 energy credits has been stolen from our Protectorate. This was done by Angel operatives, who registered a fake firm in the University. These operatives then loaned 200 energy credits from the largest bank in the University, Minerva Bank. Using frauded documents, Minerva was led to believe investing in the firm would be money well spent.

    Nothing could be further from the truth. As soon as the Angel operatives had acquired the desired 200 credits, they set up an overseas bank account and gradually sneaked the energy in small amounts to Angel lands. As the University security can be lax from time to time, this went unnoticed until the Spartan elite Crypteia divisions noticed the missing energy during a routine check.

    Here we present proof of the crime committed. Naturally top secret information has been omitted for the public eye.



    As the Federation has repeatedly stated we would not allow unapproved contact with the University, there is no excuse for the Angel behaviour. Therefore we demand immediate repayment of the outstanding loan to the University Protectorate.
    Contraria sunt Complementa. -- Niels Bohr
    Mods: SMAniaC (SMAC) & Planetfall (Civ4)

    Comment


    • #3
      Good idea, I suggest you post it in the Peace Conference threads which you bumped

      Messing with the Angels could be very effective right now. We have just completed invading their neighbour and they no doubt know that we have a large strike force right on their doorstep. I think they might comply if we put enough pressure on them.

      Comment


      • #4
        And if they refuse, we could bomb Mart Pact and infiltrate the empty base before they build the Hunter-Seeker Algorithm. I'm almost hoping they refuse to pay.
        Contraria sunt Complementa. -- Niels Bohr
        Mods: SMAniaC (SMAC) & Planetfall (Civ4)

        Comment


        • #5
          My answer to all diplomacy efforts: No harm trying, so go ahead. Do not expect actual results, though.
          Seriously. Kung freaking fu.

          Comment


          • #6
            We have already received real-life results in the form of a rather funny reply from GeoModder

            As for actual in-game results, I think Maniacs idea is a good one. Either they pay back or we bomb and infiltrate them. Should be put it to a vote?

            Comment


            • #7
              it has my vote

              GGLIE

              Comment


              • #8
                How about replying:

                "What would be the purpose of finding a 'neutral' faction (if such a thing is possible) to 'broker' between us? We are not trying to arrange some deal here - we are here to claim back what belongs to the University. So if you wish to contest the University's right to these 200 credits, we should go to court and find a judge. Though of course with such an action we Spartans also have our reservations, as we realize in the end laws and the concept and content of 'justice' are determined by who can enforce their will most thoroughly."

                (And of course, we can enforce our will most thoroughly. )
                Contraria sunt Complementa. -- Niels Bohr
                Mods: SMAniaC (SMAC) & Planetfall (Civ4)

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Snoddasmannen
                  Should be put it to a vote?
                  It has mine alright.
                  Seriously. Kung freaking fu.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Hmm, missed the window of opportunity to post my reply above.

                    How about this in reply to Mart's new post?

                    In response to message by Colonel Maniac

                    Data Angels are very sad and surprised that Spartan Federation sees recent events in such negative way. We would like to point the following aspects of this issue:

                    1) We did in fact received 118 EC from Provost Zakharov, NOT 200.

                    2) Some time ago Spartan Federation informed Data Angels, that the Federation would like to improve economic situation of University of Planet. We saw this opportunity exactly in this way. We believe that the recent economic operation will improve University of Planet economy. Provost Zakharov will receive from Data Angels not 118 EC but together with interests 200 EC payed to him on a regular basis. This constitutes over 69 % more energy credits that was loaned to us, and this interest rate is very high and beneficial for University of Planet. We believe, that Provost Zakharov will spend this additional energy transfered to him in efficient way, what will have positive impact on Spartan Federation economy as well.

                    3) We presently pay back the loan to the University of Planet on a regular basis and will continue to do so as long as the whole amount including the interest of 69 % will be transferred to Provost Zakharov. Therefore we see no reason to transfer any energy at this moment to Spartan Federation.

                    4) In case if for any reason University of Planet would not be able to receive the energy credits for the loan from us, we would repay the amount to Spartan Federation, but not before Data Angels would be relieved from obligation to University of Planet.

                    5) Regarding the claim, that Data Angels broke the law, Provost Zakharov did not mentioned to us any of the limitation to his economic decisions. We believe, that if Spartan Federation wishes to investigate this matter, Provost Zakharov should be questioned by you. We, of course, support Provost Zakharov, since as mentioned in paragraph (2) we consider it a very beneficial agreement for University of Planet and Spartan Federation.

                    6) We believe, that Spartan Federation sees this as reasonable and will appreciate this economic agreement as very positive.

                    Sincerely,
                    Data Angels
                    IT Mart

                    1) We thank you for sharing this information.

                    2) The flawed logic and mathematics in this paragraph may indicate why the Angel economy is performing so poorly compared to the Spartan one. The annual interest rate of the loan in question is 2/118= 1.7%. This is ridicously low. By comparison, a common practice such as harvesting a forest with a supply crawler returns an annual profit of 6.7% on the investment. Why, if the Angels believe a 1.7% interest rate is very high, the Federation would be more than happy to lend money from you after this matter has been arranged.

                    3) We are not asking for any money to be transferred to the Federation. We are asking for the credits to be returned to Minerva Bank - with headquarters in the University Protectorate - from which the money was fraudulously obtained.

                    5) Provost Zakharov had nothing to do with arranging this loan. As you surely must know, you obtained this loan from Minerva Bank.
                    Contraria sunt Complementa. -- Niels Bohr
                    Mods: SMAniaC (SMAC) & Planetfall (Civ4)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      One question. Why did you not add the adequate punch line (i.e. "Our words are backed with a large Staff of Whoop-arse")?
                      Seriously. Kung freaking fu.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        This is an interesting discussion indeed!

                        I don't have much in the way of economics education, but I have often been thinking along these lines of what the interest of an investment is. Is the interest rate really as high as 1.7%? Remember that some of what they pay is part of the 118 lent out. So roughly half of the payment is amortization. (I am not an economist, nor do I have a loan, so I don't really know ). The deal is obviously not profitable anyway.

                        I'm not sure we need to answer in detail to every point raised. We certainly don't have to, we're bigger than they are. We should just boom back something which is short, concise and to the point.

                        What I would like is for them to pay back the money quicker, say at 10 times the speed, ie: 20 a turn. I can't see how that would be possible in-game however.

                        One option is to have them pay back the full amount in 10 years time. This has the downside of giving them time to prepare themselves for an attack from us and simply not pay back.

                        Another option is to simply insist that they pay everything back right away, all 200 of them, next turn. We can then extort it from Lal and pay them back some of the extra money, minus the proper interest (say 200 - 140 = 60 ec).

                        We should advise them to do this by next turn, or we will consider this a betrayal of confidence, and we might mention that some members of the Junta consider it an act of war.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I would boom something like this:

                          We are not impressed by your attempts to excuse this obviously fraudulent action. Fortunately, the Junta is forgiving and will allow you to make up for this transgression without substantial loss on your behalf, other than that of honour.

                          The Junta has decided that you will pay back the full amount of 200 ec to the University next planet year. The Federation, in its greatness, recognizes that this is unfair to the Angels since it constitutes a most heavy economic loss of roughly 80 ec. So the Junta, in the interests of world peace and stability, will gracefully refund the Angels to the amount of 60 ec, compensating us for actual interest and transaction costs.

                          The Junta would consider a denial of this agreement a serious breach of confidence on the Angels behalf. Certain members have even mentioned that they would consider it an act of war.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Snoddasmannen
                            I don't have much in the way of economics education, but I have often been thinking along these lines of what the interest of an investment is. Is the interest rate really as high as 1.7%? Remember that some of what they pay is part of the 118 lent out. So roughly half of the payment is amortization. (I am not an economist, nor do I have a loan, so I don't really know ). The deal is obviously not profitable anyway.
                            Yeah you're right. It should probably be 82/118=69% interest over hundred years. Divided by 100 = 0.69% annual interest. Ten times less than a crawler on a forest (2 minerals annual return on a 30-min crawler = 1/15 = 6.7%).

                            We should advise them to do this by next turn, or we will consider this a betrayal of confidence, and we might mention that some members of the Junta consider it an act of war.
                            While I like that, I think we should wait a year with this, and keep the conversation ongoing and somewhat friendly for now. Currently the Disco Volante isn't in position yet to infiltrate the Angels if they refuse.
                            Contraria sunt Complementa. -- Niels Bohr
                            Mods: SMAniaC (SMAC) & Planetfall (Civ4)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Maniac
                              Yeah you're right. It should probably be 82/118=69% interest over hundred years. Divided by 100 = 0.69% annual interest. Ten times less than a crawler on a forest (2 minerals annual return on a 30-min crawler = 1/15 = 6.7%).
                              And don't forget that you can 'cash' the crawler any time you like by MM:ing it.

                              While I like that, I think we should wait a year with this, and keep the conversation ongoing and somewhat friendly for now. Currently the Disco Volante isn't in position yet to infiltrate the Angels if they refuse.
                              Good idea We have all kinds of ways to stall, and this economic discussion is a start. Point out the terrible economic terms of this investment, and if they try to defend their position they will only look like fools

                              Comment

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