MY-2181 - Planning & Execution thread

[Googlie]

Originally posted by Maniac
If you want, I could take a look at the save and identify some things that we can hurry and will give us immediate gains?

Maniac- would you be able to play this turn?

It's the Canadian long weekend and I'm on a golfing junket for the weekend with my laptop, but forgot my external keyboard & mouse, and it's a pain in the butt to use the alpha switch keys or the sensor for so many moves (it's ok for a PBEM where it's 2120 or something, but the ACDG is really complicated now)

I'll be back at ny desktop by Monday evening, but by then it'll be too late.

The only move I made before leaving was to continue the crypteia's journey to ARC, and switch a couple of workers at the drone-rioting bases to doctors - they'll be self evident

I do have the turn downloaded onto my laptop, so can do screenies, comment and even run parallel simulations for diplo purposes, as nothing hangs on my making a wrong movement entry

[Zeiter]

Here's an idea regarding the drop probes and Angel diplomacy: We can capture the remaining PK base, which will then extend our territory over the rest of the continent. Thus, the Angels' probe will be in OUR territory, making it perfectly legal to kill off the probe with a needlejet or something. Then, if they do decide to declare war over it, we go ahead and build the AV. That way we can at least seem somewhat justified in what we are doing, and maybe the others will stay out of it for a little bit longer. Of course, if we decided to take this course, we need to be prepared to rumble with the Angels.

Edit: Oh, wait, the probes are already in our territory. We could just go ahead an kill them now, then. Or maybe we could just interrogate them and send the probes back! We could send a message along the lines of:

"We regret to inform you that your drop probes in Spartan Arcadian territory have been neutralized/interrogated and sent back to Angel territory. Rest assured this is no sign of aggressive Spartan intentions. We greatly appreciate your mindfulness of our concerns regarding the Angel needlejet that srecently trayed into Spartan territory, and we hope that our cordial relations continue. You must understand, however, that we find the presence of foreign probes on Spartan soil to be unacceptable under any circumstances whatsoever. Thank you for your understanding."

[Googlie]

unfortunately the game doesn't recognize where they are at as being in Spartan territory (we don't get the option of interrogating them and sending them home - just the option to break treaty and attack them.)

Here are some costs:

• to instabuild a Hybrid Forest at Fort Soup - MM, then fly in the gin freighter - and then revert to the HF 2 minerals short - deploy that new crawler sitting in the base to a forested tile and voila, Hybrid Forest next turn
• to instabuild a Research Hospital at AU - MM, then use an AU nut crawler plus the Argos mineral crawler, retire and add 30 credits and a Research Hospital next turn
• to instabuild a Research Hospital at Vlad - MM, and use 3 crawlers (the new one in the base plus 2 from the field - reassigning workers to the condensor farm and mine they came from). Builds it exactly next turn with no surplus minerals

Also, if we attack the plasma defender at Temple, then the PK's will surely switch again from a noodle to another defender (btw, the odds of sabotaging production of the noodle are just 67% - not worth it IMO)

[vishniac]

-- to instabuild a Hybrid Forest at Fort Soup - MM, then fly in the gin freighter - and then revert to the HF 2 minerals short - deploy that new crawler sitting in the base to a forested tile and voila, Hybrid Forest next turn
--to instabuild a Research Hospital at AU - MM, then use an AU nut crawler plus the Argos mineral crawler, retire and add 30 credits and a Research Hospital next turn
--to instabuild a Research Hospital at Vlad - MM, and use 3 crawlers (the new one in the base plus 2 from the field - reassigning workers to the condensor farm and mine they came from). Builds it exactly next turn with no surplus minerals

Wow, they were fast this time!
Now, a few things about the turn:

-- forest expanded at Fort Liberty and Iaci base. Good!
-- The info shows us gaining +59 credits/turn !!! We just cut it to 30% last turn and now it doubles... So, yes, we can do what we want with money.
-- Gaians put a base inside the ring of monoliths.

-- Fort Sup: For me,it's a no-brainer to instabuild the H-Forest now. Then, starting next turn, it'll be considered a superbase, ready for any task.
-- AU. Bad, that cloud haze! It negates a little the advantage of the Hospital (but I remember we need it also for drone control ASAP). I'd say it's a go.
-- Argos. We need a network node to link the coming AA. Argos seems a good place for one.
-- Vladivostok. Would it be reallly efficient to build a Hospital in a base with only 2 lab points (before bonus)? Vlad can churn out 1 former/turn. We spare the crawler for, say, a Tree Farm when the formers will have done their job.

-- I still think Laconia cities severely lack space and terraformation. We could build a hab in Messenia but the output would be...negligible, don't you think? Same with the creche at Fort Buster.
It doesn't mean the Ministry of Infrastructure doesn't support building but I ask for a focus. The sooner we get a superbase over there working as developpement pole, the sooner the best for the region.

-- Grrrr! The Longevity Vaccine! I wonder how long it'll take for the Gaians to build it. In case, we lose it. I'd say we go for the Ascetic Virtues. And I really don't like that drop-probe ON OUR SOIL!

[Snoddasmannen]

Originally posted by Googlie
Technically, their probes are in neutral territory - and they didn't provoke us by landing their noodle in the PK base

I think the probes are a blatant provocation, if we were truly good friends they wouldn't be doing this to us. Didn't we warn them that we weren't going to tolerate any more tricks?

And this raises a point - do we now care what our reputation is?

No. If the Angels won't cooperate with us, noone else will either. It is the new world order that Sparta is alone and the others are secretly plotting against us. We are free to go ahead and violate any deals we have made as we please, including building the AV.

I suggest a vote on building the AV, and I vote yes. Vote yes for a strong Sparta!

(assuming that we're role playing, and that any animosity doesn't carry forward into other PBEMs by the Angels' team members against us)

I take this for granted ... I hope the other players do too.

[Maniac]

Originally posted by Googlie
Maniac- would you be able to play this turn?

Sure. Though you or someone else would have to fill me in on what has happened these last five years and what our ongoing plans are. I haven't opened a save nor read a turn thread detailed since the beginning of the PK invasion.

[Maniac]

Originally posted by Googlie
unfortunately the game doesn't recognize where they are at as being in Spartan territory (we don't get the option of interrogating them and sending them home - just the option to break treaty and attack them.)

Could this be because there are two on the same square?

Also, if we attack the plasma defender at Temple, then the PK's will surely switch again from a noodle to another defender (btw, the odds of sabotaging production of the noodle are just 67% - not worth it IMO)

What's the current plan for the PKs btw? Eliminate them, or leave them that last base so we have some infiltration on the Angels?

Originally posted by Snoddasmannen
I think the probes are a blatant provocation, if we were truly good friends they wouldn't be doing this to us. Didn't we warn them that we weren't going to tolerate any more tricks?

One must wonder what their goal is. They have a couple experienced PBEMers, so surely they must know we can see those drop probes sitting there?

Just a thought, could they perhaps be trying to outbluff us? Hoping that we don't want vendetta and thus won't attack the probes? Even if there's just a small chance it could work, it could be worth it with the possible prize of valuable infiltration data.

In any case, if we do nothing, they'll infiltrate us. The veteran Disco Volante can't stop two elite probe teams. Besides simply attacking them, we could station a unit between the probes and our base. No vendetta then. But then again, perhaps this is part of their bluff? Them dropping some probes on our territory could mean that they're willing next turn to declare war on us and destroy and units preventing them from infiltrating us.

[Googlie]

Originally posted by Maniac
Could this be because there are two on the same square?

Seems like it is. I set up the simulator with just one probe team, and sure enough, when we fly an aircraft out we get the ususal 'eliminate or interrogate them" choice

What's the current plan for the PKs btw? Eliminate them, or leave them that last base so we have some infiltration on the Angels?

I think concensus is to capture the base and hold Lal in our interrogation chambers (maybe give the Angels an excuse to try and mount a rescue via probe action against Sparta Command!!) - the data we are getting is useful, but we still get caught by surprise (eg, their building the Cyborg factory). So better we have it than let is stay on the continent as a possible foothold for the Angels to mount attacks against us in the future

One must wonder what their goal is. They have a couple experienced PBEMers, so surely they must know we can see those drop probes sitting there?

True - but remember I thought that Morgan couldn't see out PTS raid team hiding in the sea fungus - and yet they did

Just a thought, could they perhaps be trying to outbluff us? Hoping that we don't want vendetta and thus won't attack the probes? Even if there's just a small chance it could work, it could be worth it with the possible prize of valuable infiltration data.

In any case, if we do nothing, they'll infiltrate us. The veteran Disco Volante can't stop two elite probe teams. Besides simply attacking them, we could station a unit between the probes and our base. No vendetta then. But then again, perhaps this is part of their bluff? Them dropping some probes on our territory could mean that they're willing next turn to declare war on us and destroy and units preventing them from infiltrating us.

I agree. I suggest that it's time we take up the cudgels. After all, we have a massive invasion force in southern Arcadia (I was moving the transport fleet round the Cape of Sol to position it for the inevitable confrontation)

So:

• we delay capturing Temple of Sol for a turn until we can get a longstrider down there (but we can still empty the base of its defender with a B-6 strike)
• we destroy the probes on our doorstep
• we instabuild the Ascetic Virtues (prolly a better use of the flying gin freighter anyway)
• we move into a mass-production of F-6's mode (we know that the Angels have at least 1 penetrator capable of reaching those southern bases
• we ready the invasion fleet for Operation JumpJazz
• we double crypteia defences where possible

[Googlie]

Note: Ironholm can build the Ascetic Virtues with:

• change production from the crawler to the AV
• send in the crawling ginfreighter next door
• cash in AU's new crawler
• cash in AU's crawler working the condensor farm
• cash in one of the 2 Argos mine crawlers
• cash in FL's farm/mine crawler (to the immediate south)
• after reallocating workers, pay 60 credits

Simultaneously, Fort Superiority can get its instabuilt Hybrid Forest with:

• MM a plasma missile battery unit, and send the flying gin freighter there to cash it in.
• cash in FS's own new crawler
• retire design
• chgange to Hybrid Forest - exactly the number of minerals needed!!

So we get the AV and hybrid forest for the 2 gin freighters plus five crawlers and a handful of credits.

There are prolly other combinations, but the problem is the drone riots in AU - that means that the crawling gin freighter can only be used this turn at Ironholm. Of course, we can upgrade a couple of crawlers and go for the AV next turn, cheaper, somewhere else - maybe Fort Soup after it gets its HF? - (it costs 90 credits to upgrade from a regular crawler to a 1 -2t-1 version, worth 80 minerals)

[Maniac]

Is it mandatory for FS to get its hybrid forest THIS turn and not next turn (when it could be built cheaper with some upgraded crawlers)?

[Maniac]

Anyway, I've had a look at the turn. I see lots of popbooming has been done.


I have no idea what the ongoing plans are, so forgive if I'm asking stupid questions or making stupid suggestions.

Anyway, here goes:


How about building a creche in 2NS? Should give more extra production there than a rec tank. Or crawler would also be nice, as I see a mine will soon be built there?

Why is SC1 building a rec commons? Are we planning to popboom that base in the immediate future?

(Micromanager observation for SC1: reduce nutrients production, only two more are needed to fill the nutrient tanks.)

Are we planning to start popbooming Fort Buster this turn? I see it has a rec commons and creche.

Why are we running with 10% psych?


I see some micromanagement thingies that could be done to improve worker and crawler output. Do I have carte blanche to shuffle around with those in our homelands and Northern Arcadia? I could do it tomorrow - now I'm almost off to bed.

Someone else better does all the moves for the military in LaLaLand though, as I have no idea what the current plans are there.


Anyway, I didn't do anything yet. Except one thing. I changed all the formers that were building a mine on a rolling rainy farm towards building a condenser. (If that was completely unwanted, easy for someone else to play the turn, as I haven't done anything else yet.)
The reason is that a farm-mine combo on a rolling rainy tile (or any tile except one with a mineral bonus) is not a very efficient terraformation.
It gives tiles that produce 2-2-0 nut/min/ene, at a cost of 12 former turns.
By comparison, building a farm/solar collector gives 3-1-2 at a cost of 10 former turns. A forest 1-2-1 in 4 turns. And a condenser farm 4-1-0 in 16 turns. More production for less former turns.

[Maniac]

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[Zeiter]

You know what, I'm ready to declare war on the Angels. Let's go! But I have a question: if we destroy those probes, won't the base be left undefended (and prone to Angel air-drop?) If not, then destroy those probes, snag the AV, and let's get ready to rumble!

[Googlie]

Originally posted by Maniac
Is it mandatory for FS to get its hybrid forest THIS turn and not next turn (when it could be built cheaper with some upgraded crawlers)?

no - not really. the cash seems to be burning a hole in our pockets, though

How about building a creche in 2NS? Should give more extra production there than a rec tank. Or crawler would also be nice, as I see a mine will soon be built there?

We put the recycling tanks there a couple of turns ago when popping a pod - figured it was a decent snag as the base (then) didn't have many minerals - just left it there since. A creche is OK, too, as with the tomcats working there getting nuts won't be a problem - or a crawler, to work the imminent mine about to be started

Why is SC1 building a rec commons? Are we planning to popboom that base in the immediate future?

The thought was to build it up as our Arcadian super city (being the HQ, no energy loss was appealing) The tomcats in that triangle - SC1 - SC2 - GH have a slew of rainy tiles t9o farm/condensor for pop growth (note the trance policeman there, so we don't need to upgrade to a cdf - there's a couple of these around now)

Are we planning to start popbooming Fort Buster this turn? I see it has a rec commons and creche

Yes. Move the Rio grande crawler on 56:14 to 57:15, and then reposition the FB crawler on the forest mineral east onto the vacated 3 nut tile. RG's new crawler can then either work the minerals from the forested mineral tile (or head upriver to the sensor farm tile - if we move a Messena worker from it) or else can rehome to FB and still work the mineral forest tile for FB

Why are we running with 10% psych?

We had drone problems with the larger bases - needed to have the psych kicxk in for the multipliers to work (with growth, new citizens would be drones - as happened with AU and GH, notwithstanding)

I see some micromanagement thingies that could be done to improve worker and crawler output. Do I have carte blanche to shuffle around with those in our homelands and Northern Arcadia? I could do it tomorrow - now I'm almost off to bed.

Feel free - that's what we missed these last few turns, and struggled as best we could

Someone else better does all the moves for the military in LaLaLand though, as I have no idea what the current plans are there

I can prolly handle those even on my laptop - there's not much to do this turn, though, as we can't invade temple (we can take out its garrison unit, though). Other moves contemplated were to take out the spore launcher at Aid Station for the credits, and maybe take out the remaining PK formers with ground or air units.

The Skanky Sileni at Aid Station can destroy those 2 probe teams (and to answer Z's question, there will still be a CDF in the base, plus the Skanky can return after it completes its mission)

[Googlie]

And, Maniac, you're right about the cost of mc'ing a colony pod. per the simulator, it's 306 credits.

So another thing to do militarily is to destroy that colony pod outside UN High Commission. the last thing we want is for another PK base to pop up in our midst