MY 2164 Planning Thread

[Maniac]

Some suggestions previously made:

Sink the brand new Hive flagship with the B-6 in MT. First look at Great Collective's unit support box to get an idea where the ship is heading.

Search and destroy the Morganic 2-3-4. We'll finish 4 B-4s next turn, so that ships would have to be very lucky to succesfully hide itself.

Move the crawler on (56.10) a tile SE to harvest minerals at the mine.

[Googlie]

Any thoughts on arty units? (maybe in bases like MT and 2Nuts with adjacent fungus, where spore launchers - or enemy units - could lurk)

Fairly cheap at 20 mins

[Modo44]

Artillery makes sense on the Hive border, and that is it. I think we can afford a couple.

As to the B4s, are all 4 too far to start attacking Morgan land units immediately?

[Maniac]

No, they can all attack Terrapeso next turn. Why the wink btw? If there was a misunderstanding, I didn't mean to use all B-4s for hunting down that ship. With my first post I just wanted to make the start of a list what to do next turn, with sinking the Morganic ship being one of the many goals.

So what land targets do we want to attack with our air fleet?

[Modo44]

Originally posted by Maniac
No, they can all attack Terrapeso next turn. Why the wink btw?

Because I still find we should commit all our air units to damaging Morgan.

Originally posted by Maniac
So what land targets do we want to attack with our air fleet?

If we are still going to invade (I am in favor, as you know), then best defenders and after that - the most expensive units. Basically preparing to invade. If the invasion is to be called off, take out the most expensive targets and crawlers.

[Googlie]

Site of the Citizens' Defense Force

While normally I hesitate in PBEMs to place more than one SP in a single base, it does make sense to site the CDF in Sparta Command:

• It's a no-minerals base, so we're not detracting from any other builds there (the 2 accumulated minerals will convert to energy credits, if I understand Maniac's other posts re: stockpiling energy)
• Both supercrawlers can get there next turn (versus Sector CraterSouth, the other no-minerals base, where they couldn't)
• It's our Headquarters, and we'll definitely protect it better than Morgan protected theirs

So I'd vote for it being built at Sparta Command

[Googlie]

Build orders are needed in 2164 for the following bases (minerals)

• Santiago Citadel (8)
• Fort Superiority (27)
• Gythium Harbour (6)
• Sector Craterwest (9)
• Argos (3)
• Tegea Harbour (9, with the new crawler working the mine there)
• Fort Buster (8)
• Rio Grande (11)

A B-4 costs 20 minerals, and a B-6 is 40. An unarmored Impact rover is 30, a Gatling is 40 and a missile rover is 50, and add 10 to these to give amphibious capability. A Crypteia would be 20 minerals while a longstrider is 30

Currently we have 1 Missile Penetrator and 2 Impact pens. In 2164 we'll add another Missile Pen and 4 Impacts, then a fifth Impact Penetrator in 2165 at Olympus Academy (a 15-minerals base). Thus our 2165 airforce will comprise 2 Missile Penetrators and 7 Impact Pens.

We obviously need more aircraft, but also need to create our Morgan invasion force.

Plus, at some time in the next five years we need to think of producing some F-4's (30 minerals for an Impact Interceptor) or F-5's (40 minerals)

So what to produce - and rush maybe - at those bases next turn?

I'm assuming we don't have the luxury of time to throw up rec tanks in any of the better minerals bases (but maybe in the lesser ones, to boost minerals and food production there)

[Modo44]

[*]Fort Superiority (27)
Longstrider or Impact Rover for active defense (of us, Zak and Lal) or to join a second wave against Morgan. Or leave it at 2-turns Amphib Missile Rover production without rushes.
[*]Sector Craterwest (9)
Rec Tanks to make it (10)
[*]Tegea Harbour (9, with the new crawler working the mine there)
If indeed (9), then as Sector Craterwest it needs Rec Tanks.

Except if there is growth, we should try to stabilize some bases at optimal values of minerals, so they can keep building without rushes without losing too many minerals (preferably none). This should give us the ability to keep up with the Morgan cash machine.

I'm assuming we don't have the luxury of time to throw up rec tanks in any of the better minerals bases (but maybe in the lesser ones, to boost minerals and food production there)

If we can stabilize them at useful numbers (preferably 10), then it would make sense. Those could then be left alone producing things, while rushing takes place in other bases.

[sentry33]

Site of the Citizens' Defense Force

[...]

So I'd vote for it being built at Sparta Command

Any thoughts on arty units? (maybe in bases like MT and 2Nuts with adjacent fungus, where spore launchers - or enemy units - could lurk)

Unless we see huge stacks of tough units, i'd rather have extra B4 or F4 patrolling/fighting. Much more versatile unit at the same price.

[Maniac]

Originally posted by Googlie
Any thoughts on arty units? (maybe in bases like MT and 2Nuts with adjacent fungus, where spore launchers - or enemy units - could lurk)

Fairly cheap at 20 mins

Sounds great. I didn't know they cost as much as normal missile infantry.

Correction of an earlier statement: the B-4 built in Santiago Citadel can't reach Terrapeso next turn. So I guess the choice with which B-4 to sink the Morganic ship is easily made.

Originally posted by Modo44
If we are still going to invade (I am in favor, as you know), then best defenders and after that - the most expensive units. Basically preparing to invade. If the invasion is to be called off, take out the most expensive targets and crawlers.

Problem is our hardened B-4s are too weak to handle Morgan's best defences. In Vander Eudaimonics they have a plasma sentinel (3 armour) of veteran morale (+25%) in a base (+25%) covered by a sensor array (+25%), which for the record is just out of range of our aircraft - we can't destroy it. Attacking that unit - or other disclipined plasma units in bases - would most likely be suicide for our hardened B-4s. Even for our hardened B-6 taking on that veteran plasma sentinels would be fifty-fifty. So I'd like to stress it's important to build as many air units as possible in our aerospace bases (instead of normal bases), to get that much needed morale bonus!

Originally posted by Googlie
It's [SC1] a no-minerals base, so we're not detracting from any other builds there (the 2 accumulated minerals will convert to energy credits, if I understand Maniac's other posts re: stockpiling energy)

Ah no. The credits received by the stockpile energy bug are determined by the mineral production at the turn when you build the production item, not by how many minerals are forwarded. I used to think this mistake too a few years back, but I thought it was you who corrected me.

So in any case, we wouldn't get any free credits from building the CDF at Sparta Command (or one, if next turn we'd switch a SC1 forest worker to a mine, becoming empty after the supercrawler is cashed in).

So those 2 minerals currently in store in SC2 would be lost, as we'd have 302 in store after cashing in the crawlers, while we only need 300. And overhurried minerals are lost, as I too learnt from you in ACDG2.

For the record, two other bases where we could build the CDF are Santiago Citadel and Gythium Harbour. By building it in SC2 we'd lose one mineral to overhurrying, and we'd get more free credits from the stockpile energy bug compared to SC1. By building it in GH we'd lose nothing to overhurrying, but of course that base is more vulnerable for someone wanting to repeat what we did to Morgan Industries, if we're afraid of that.

But all in all, I'd say I've written a lot of text with the general conclusion it doesn't matter that much where we build it.

Originally posted by Modo44 [*]Fort Superiority (27)
Longstrider or Impact Rover for active defense (of us, Zak and Lal) or to join a second wave against Morgan. Or leave it at 2-turns Amphib Missile Rover production without rushes.

What would you think of an Aerospace Complex there? Then we could build commando aircraft in Arcadia as well. We could hurry AerComplex production '65 with a crawler to speed things up.

Except if there is growth, we should try to stabilize some bases at optimal values of minerals, so they can keep building without rushes without losing too many minerals (preferably none).

Due to the mineral carry-forward (does Civ3 have that btw? - I can't remember) losing minerals doesn't form a problem yet at the moment.

Regarding recycling tanks, while they are a good investment, I can think of a better one: a supply crawler!
Consider:
For 40 minerals you get one nut, one mine and one energy (which in our case is often lost due to inefficiency)
For 30 mins and some 12 terraforming turns (mine + road on rocky) you can get 4 minerals.
Which one do you prefer?

Even when the crawler is only harvesting a forest (2 mins) I'd personally still opt for it, as the crawler has some additional advantages over a recycling tanks:
a) It's a unit: in other words it's mobile & flexible, and it can move to wherever it's most needed at a certain time.
b) It's a walking mineral reserve. Unlike a rec tanks, we can cash it in for some project at its full mineral value whenever and wherever we deem fit.

I know I'm heavily in the minority though regarding recycling tanks.


Edit: Oh yeah, some other stuff.

Steppenwolfs (6~-2-2) : since we're moving itt to Minas Tirith, what will Hermes do? IIRC previous suggestion was to let Hermes pick up the Steppenwolfs, and let them attack Laborer's Throng.

We could use the new GH Mercury transport to ferry the missile infantry to MT. I guess that would give us enough units in place to garrison the base and hold off any Hive units in the next couple years. Therefore, how about making use of this opportunity to send the commando missile and impact infantry in MT to the nearest monolith for an upgrade to elite?

(In fact, after upgrading our scout patrols to police units, we'd have an overabundance of garrison units allowing us to move them freely around, and we could give many commando hoplites an upgrade to elite.)

[Modo44]

Originally posted by Maniac
So I'd like to stress it's important to build as many air units as possible in our aerospace bases (instead of normal bases), to get that much needed morale bonus!

That I did not think of. We are making air units in those bases at the moment, right?

Originally posted by Maniac
What would you think of an Aerospace Complex there? Then we could build commando aircraft in Arcadia as well. We could hurry AerComplex production '65 with a crawler to speed things up.

Definately worth it. With 3 bases concentrated on air units, we could start making other things elsewhere sooner.

Originally posted by Maniac
Due to the mineral carry-forward (does Civ3 have that btw? - I can't remember) losing minerals doesn't form a problem yet at the moment.

Production does not carry over in Civ3. Sorry about that. You can disregard my Civ3 concepts.

Originally posted by Maniac
Regarding recycling tanks, while they are a good investment, I can think of a better one: a supply crawler!
Consider:
For 40 minerals you get one nut, one mine and one energy (which in our case is often lost due to inefficiency)
For 30 mins and some 12 terraforming turns (mine + road on rocky) you can get 4 minerals.
Which one do you prefer?

Being a builder, I would personally take the balanced choice, evan if it is a bit static - Rec. Tanks. However, we are not exactly a builder faction, in which case Crawlers seem better for Sparta.

Originally posted by Maniac
I know I'm heavily in the minority though regarding recycling tanks.

That is a growing "minority".

Originally posted by Maniac
(In fact, after upgrading our scout patrols to police units, we'd have an overabundance of garrison units allowing us to move them freely around, and we could give many commando hoplites an upgrade to elite.)

Or, you can consider them cheap "filler" troops to go for Morgan. Could some of those not be used as "hulls", to be upgraded underway or even on (soon-to-be-former) Morgan soil?

[Snoddasmannen]

I've opened the turn, and nothing dramatic has really happened that I can see. Some observations:

• Gaia is still blocking us.
• The B-4 was 50% damaged in the mindworm-attack, so that'll not be of great use to us right now.
• The Morgans have switched taxes to 70% credits and 30% labs. So they have no research but an income of 255!
• I can see two Hive impact speeders approaching MT
• Morgan has founded a new base "Morgan Construction" well inside the former Hive/Morgan neutral zone. There is a Hive rover in the vicinity, if we could entice them to declare war ...

With regards to Gaia, I suggest we attack them this turn. Their units are still stacked on the choke-point, so we may be able to take them all out. Also, our scout rover should follow the river and see if Gaia have a defender in their new base (and if we so if we can destroy it).

As a precursor to this, I suggest we should post the Debbie article in the general forum, along with an announcement that Major Snoddasmannen has been made the official ambassadeur to Gaia, or something like that They'll be terrified.

Oh, and we did get IntInt from the Angels (boy is my face red ) and Morgan doesn't have it.

[Googlie]

Maniac - you're playing these next 2-3 turns, yes?

[Googlie]

First question is:

What tech do we want to change to -I suggest Subatomics, so that we can then get silksteel - that aloows us to upgrade our defences to plasma while still keeping our prototype-crawler rush-retire design strategy intact

[Googlie]

Riddle me this:

With Fundy, we are at -2 research (giving 50 ec's and a tech every 44 turns - yellow in the pic below)

Change to Police - 0 research (pink below) and our research rate drops out of sight (24 ec's and a tech every 399 turns)

Why? (I can see the -4 Economic Paralysis affecting our income, but does it also cripple research?)