The Council of War

[Zeiter]

Sounds like a great idea, although I doubt that we'd need another transport crew. I think we could take out at least two bases in one turn as it is. We can take out the farthest bases first, and then send two units back to crush the intermediate base.

[Modo44]

Originally posted by Zeiter
Sounds like a great idea, although I doubt that we'd need another transport crew. I think we could take out at least two bases in one turn as it is. We can take out the farthest bases first, and then send two units back to crush the intermediate base.

We have a transport around, with two Rovers (one offensive, one scout). It is in a good position to strike Laborer's Throng on its own, not to mention with the help of Needlejets. Since this action would not require additional preparations, I believe we should do it. Getting to the Hive bases on land would simply be slower.

[Googlie]

But I think there are some 20 or so Yang units milling around in the fungus and within 3 or 4 tiles from MT - next turn we'll recce down the Rio Rojo basin with a B-4, 'cos there are still some 7 units unaccounted for from 3 turns ago

(And I see that Morgan - or the Gaians - didn't ask us to end the University Vendetta as a peace condition - but we should, so that any technology theft is then considered - by us - as an act of war against us, bringing "serious consequences" to the perpetrator)

[Modo44]

Well, GeoModder asked us to ask Zak to make peace. I think we need to anyway, and so we should — first thing next turn.

As to Yang, I meant delaying by a few turns. If he has units within striking range of our bases then we simply must ask him to leave. I was hoping we could manage at least 2-3 turns, but if not, at least we will have a strong case against the Hive. The thing is, Yang did withdraw once, so he might withdraw another time. Might be different now that we are in Democracy, might be the same. We will see.

[Googlie]

At least Yang's units are all still within his territory (at last looking, that is)

[Googlie]

Originally posted by Modo44
Well, GeoModder asked us to ask Zak to make peace. I think we need to anyway, and so we should - first thing next turn.

Aha - I missed that (below):

Originally posted be GeoModder

Can I ask the Spartan Representative if steps will be taken to persuade their allies to sign a truce or a peace treaty as well with the Corporation?

Will be easy enough with Zak, but that assumes that Lal answers his commlink when we call

[wuy3]

Maybe we can get something out of this quick invasion from the gaians (thinking specifically about the peace deal). Announce to them we are helping out against our common enemy or something? Not sure if its worth the risks but they'll def know about the invasion once it begins since Hive is throughly infiltrated.

[Maniac]

Originally posted by Googlie
(And I see that Morgan - or the Gaians - didn't ask us to end the University Vendetta as a peace condition - but we should, so that any technology theft is then considered - by us - as an act of war against us, bringing "serious consequences" to the perpetrator)

Do we really want to risk giving free techs to the Axis of Weasels by asking for a treaty between them? Also, if we want to declare war on the Weasels again later on, surely we can do it without a real casus belli, and invent one?

[Modo44]

Originally posted by Maniac
Do we really want to risk giving free techs to the Axis of Weasels by asking for a treaty between them? Also, if we want to declare war on the Weasels again later on, surely we can do it without a real casus belli, and invent one?

How does that give them free techs? Are they strong enough to bully something out of Zak?

[Maniac]

Or they could simply trade it with him for another tech or cash of course. Meaning we would be unable to pose our own terms for a tech trade.

[vishniac]

It seems we need a decision about when to strike on Lalaland.

From what I ssee, the question would be:
Do we keep just border-covering forces and aircrafts to repel any surprise attack by Yang and launch the bulk of our forces against Lal for a blitzkrieg?
Or do we first take those 3 Hive bases bordering Minas Tirith (be it after he attacks or after we push him to attack ) and be quiet on this front, allowing 80% of the Air Force to '6-day-war' the Peacekeepers after?

[Modo44]

After taking a good look at the possibilities, I think we can attack Lal soon, while maintaining a safe position against Yang. And since Lal is now a liability (considering his past and future tech trades with our enemies), I think the sooner we move the better.

If I understand the idea correctly, we would take U.N. Planning Authority, and proceed directly to seize U.N. Headquarters, considering other bases targets of opportunity. This can be achieved by moving 4 bombers (currently in Twonuts Stand, Minas Tirith, and Fort Superiority), and the sea detachment currently west of Iaci base (has an Amphibious Missile Rover, and an Unity Rover—to be upgraded). Using armed ships to damage defenders, we should be able to take the first base despite its heavy defenses. The next one would have less defenders, so it should be possible to follow the first attack rather easily. Land units from Arcadia can come in from the north and make sure no nasty surprises come out of U.N. High Commision.

It would take two turns to assemble an air squadron in Iaci Base to make sure the first step of the operation succeeds. Even if Yang attacks during that time (or rather declares Vendetta should we have to ask him to leave), we still have enough units to keep him occupied. We can use the Nedlejets currently at Fort Buster and Sector Craterwest to reinforce our air cover against Yang, or—depending on how the situation unfolds—to build a second wave against Lal.

I see two problems, though. One is probe protection. Lal has one at U.N. Commerce Commitee, and could move it against us. The other one are Rovers the Peacekeepers have, that sit out of reach of our land units. But those could probably be contained by simply blocking Roads with Needlejets.

[Maniac]

Personally I'm fine with staying at peace, attacking the Hive or attacking the Peacekeepers. If we do want to attack though, personally I think we may not yet have enough forces to go for a quick breakthrough:

1) Keep in mind that both the Hive and Peacekeepers have missile needlejets. It would be recommended to have some F-6s available to defend against PK air strikes or against a Hive surprise attack back home while we're committed elsewhere.

2) While all those PK rovers should be easy to kill with our B-4 air fleet, the Peacekeepers also have 12 plasma-armoured units. Attacking those with B-4s is not recommended - remember we lost a B-4 this way near the end of the Corporate War. So I think if we want to attack we should build at least a couple more B-6s. Especially to strike at the PK bases protected by a perimeter defense. Doesn't need to be a lot I think. If we'd build two more, we'd have a total of four B-6s if we bring the two existing also to the PK front.

3) As Modo points out, probe defense might also form a problem. If not against the PKs themselves, then against the other human factions. Capturing the eastern shore PK bases would lay us open for Angel infiltration. So if we attack, personally I'd hope we could force him into submission before we're forced to capture his eastern bases. That way we could keep him as a buffer against the Angels, just like the University is one against the Corporation. Anyway, in any case training some extra Crypteia first might also be recommended when planning an invasion.


Another issue is that the Peacekeepers are allied with the Angels. If we attack Lal, this will cause the Angel AI to automatically intervene. It might cause diplomatic troubles invading their ally. Whether or not we care about that is another question I assume, related to our attitude towards Ascetic Virtues.(?)

[Modo44]

Originally posted by Maniac
1) Keep in mind that both the Hive and Peacekeepers have missile needlejets.

Rrrright. Lal will have one in 2 turns. One.

I think we can enter, kill, and take over enough of Lal's land to make him whine and surrender. I admit it would require careful planning, and upgrades, but it is possible with rather low losses.

Originally posted by Maniac
Another issue is that the Peacekeepers are allied with the Angels.

Now, this is a real problem. If we want to stay at peace with the Angels, attacking Lal might not be welcome. Not much can be done here, as the Angels are not (openly) acting against us, so we would look bad no matter what. And it is true that hostile actions might make any future deals impossible (or almost impossible, which is about the same).

So, either we build the Ascetic Virtues, and attack Lal, basically killing any friendly relationships we might still have with the Angels, or we do nothing, in which case they will grow undisturbed. I must say I only have a very vague idea of what we can expect from them. An "inbetween" move would be to make up a story and prepare the Angels for our anti-Lal venture, so that they are not so disturbed. but would it work? I have no clue.

[Maniac]

Originally posted by Modo44
Rrrright. Lal will have one in 2 turns. One.

Well it means we need one F-6 down there.

I think we can enter, kill, and take over enough of Lal's land to make him whine and surrender. I admit it would require careful planning, and upgrades, but it is possible with rather low losses.

Something to be tested in the simulator. I'll get the PK situation up to date.
Btw, 'rather low losses'. Are you willing to accept any losses??