Sparta-Gaian Relations part II

[Googlie]

Well, (like Morgan) we got a big "yawn from the gaians in response to my e-mail missives (I sent to net warrior, Chaos Theory and binTravkin)

If we are wiulling to trade Doc Init to the G's/Morgan/A's, then should I go ahead and try to get some cash (or Neural Grafting) from Lal, in exchange for Doc: Init, if he'll talk?

[Googlie]

Maybe along the lines of:

Suggested message to the Gaians

Dear Gaian Lords

Since peace finally reigns again between the Gaian Union and the Federation, we were wondering whether you'd be interested in cementing our relationship by engaging in some further technology trades.

You have energy credits, and a technology that we currently lack, and we have a slew of technologies that you lack. What better circumstances for tech trades could there be?

Specifically, you have Neural Grafting, which we lack, and we have Intellectual Integrity, which you are currently researching. We suggest the following deal:

The Gaian Union to the Federation

• Neural Grafting
• 100 energy credits

The Federation to the Gaian Union

• Intellectual Integrity
• Cyberethics

(With Cyberethics you should/will be able to parlay a trade with the Angels into another technology)

We also have other technologies on offer should you not be interested in Cyberethics (or should you be expecting that as a future payment from the Angels for a prior trade):

Specifically:

• Progenitor Psych
• Field Modulation
• Nonlinear math
• Polymorphic Software
• Adaptive Doctrine
• Adaptive Economics
• Intellectual Integrity
• Optical Computers
• Superconductor

Are you interested?

Colonel Googlie ......... on behalf of the Federation

[Maniac]

Originally posted by Googlie
If we are wiulling to trade Doc Init to the G's/Morgan/A's, then should I go ahead and try to get some cash (or Neural Grafting) from Lal, in exchange for Doc: Init, if he'll talk?

How about waiting until we've made a deal to sell DocIni to another faction?

Regarding Neural Grafting, the Corporation has boosted their research this year, and will get the tech in 5 or 6 years IIRC (and so will we - PDL). Sooner if they leapfrog with someone. So unless we're in a hurry to get the tech (are we?) I'd say not to trade for Neural Grafting.

[Googlie]

How about a straight swap offer with the Gaians - Int Int for Neural Grafting?

(I'm anxious to get that AA cashed in - for Fusion or MMI - or even BioEngineering)

Although I'm doubtful they'll trade. I mean, why haven't the Gaians given NG to Morgan? "cos when they do, we'll get it too. I bet the three are in cahoots to deny us any techs as a result of our PDL - for as ,ong as possible. It'll be neat to read after the game whether this is in fact the case

[Googlie]

Sent on the turn - we can discuss this at greater length and contact the Gains if there is interest - no point in holding up the turn as they can equally well put NG in the diplo-box for us pre-accepted if we agree to a deal

[vishniac]

I'd say we try.
Int Int is an 'old' tech for us and the others and we already took the most juicy part of it: The CDF. It wouldn't help much the Gaians.

On the other hand, we need NG in order to have a chance with The Longevity Vaccine or the Cyborg Factory with the AA (and keeping in mind we take over 2 AAs fromLal around 2178-9)
The question is, will they trade a tech 3 for a tech 4, and what are we ready to pay as a compensation? (we're talking about the price to catch a SP here).
And, sorry if I missed it, but can we extract it from Lal with a probe team? (I seem to recall the problem is to get it fast).
Has Lal any other tech that we don't already own?

My position is, if:
-- we can steal it from Lal in 2177
-- others won't get a new 'SP' tech before 2178 (according to their lab stats)
then we wait.
If not, try the deal but be ready to pay something more to secure it!

[Zeiter]

We also have to remember that Lal might try to surrender very quickly, or at least offer NG for a truce, and in that case we would get NG, correct?

[Googlie]

That's a good point. We'll invade in 2177, and hopefully have enough fire power to capture three or four bases that turn, so he might call us an offer all techs and x hundred credits for peace

And if we refuse and he goes into abject surrender mode, then we get all his techs anyways

If we want to provoke vendetta with a techsteal, we can always do that as well (altho that sends a probe back home)

[Modo44]

Selling old techs seems like a fine idea. Somebody will, eventually, so why not take the spoils for us. Especially since we could gain some safety regarding Secret Projetcs.

[vishniac]

And the Gaians have a lot of old techs they lack.

We could promise them not to build the neural Amplifier if they share the tech (since we don't want it).

[vishniac]

Have we reached a consensus about the course of action?
Do we try the deal and cash the AA?


More questions:
Who is our official negociator now?
When you refer to the Embassy threads, where are they located?

[vishniac]

I don't know about you but the Gaians have had their turn, evaluated the situation, played, and..they still have nothing to say!
No diplomatic offer!

I propose this text that Colonel Googlie can edit at his will:
------------------------------------------------------------
Gaia's Daughters,

As you surely saw by the opening of your turn, your Faction is now at vendetta with the Spartan Federation. We have already explained elsewhere how the destruction of Angelic probe teams on Spartan soil triggered this automatic response from one of your defensive algorithms.

It is not our intent that this state of affairs last, and it's surely not in your interest too. Thus, we offer you immediate peace and a Treaty to boost our commerce. More, we'd like to trade tech at your advantage: Centauri Empathy for us and two techs of your choice for you.
Remember that we offered you a deal for Neural Grafting a few years ago that you chose to decline! HEY: did they decline or just ignore it, BTW?. Instead of making a profitable agreement, you just deprived yourselves since we got it soon after Lal declared hostilities against us.
Consider also that other factions won't probably trade techs anymore with you for fear that we'll get it for free through our Planetary Datalinks!
Such an offer can't then be turned down lightly if you want to stay a major power in this game.

The Junta allowed me to explain to you the other alternative:
We are now at vendetta with you and the Data Angels. After we'll get the official stance of your two governements about this, we'll take decisions and start implementing them during our next turn.
I let you, of course, imagine what would happen if Spartan negociators could defuse the current state of war with the Angels while Gaians prefer to stay in the current situation.
But, even in the case of a war on two fronts, you're not to ignore that the winning strategy has often been to concentrate on the weakest enemy first and take him down.
I regret to inform you that, in such a case, YOU would be that weakest link, and that the current geopolitics on Chiron would prevent anybody to help you, should we decide to impose a Treaty by...other means than politics.

You can now decide in all knowledge of the situation whether you want peaceful cohabitation and accept a juicy deal or choose to reap the grapes of wrath.

We'd like to know your reply before our next Council of War in 2183, and really hope peaceful collaboration between our two people is still possible.

With all Spartan consideration and respect,
Ambassador John Polton
---------------------------------------------------------------
You'll remark it isn't any blackmail or racket:we offer them more than we'll get!
And also, it doesn't disclose anything...since we haven't decided anything yet.
So, in brief, feel free to discuss it, change it, send it to thrash or to the Gaians. But it sure would be a kick in their ant-hill, and we'll get at least some kind of answer.

[Googlie]

How about:

To: Lords of the Gaian Union

As you would have seen upon opening your turn, the Gaian Union is now in vendetta with the Spartan Federation. We have already explained elsewhere how the destruction of two Data Angels probe teams on Spartan soil triggered this automatic response from one of your defensive algorithms.

It is not our intent that this state of affairs last, and it's surely not in your interests either. Thus, we offered you - in the diplomatic box - immediate peace and a Treaty to boost our commerce.

But we would like to extend this into a deeper trading realtionship, and would suggest a trade of the following technologies, to both our mutual benefit. The Gaian Union sends Centauri Empathy to the Spartan Federation, and in return we will send any two techs of your choice to you.

(Remember that we offered you a deal for Neural Grafting a few years ago -which you chose to ignore.) Instead of making a trade that would have profited both our factions, you merely deprived yourselves - since we got it soon after Lal declared hostilities against us.

Consider also that even your Pactmates probably will be reluctant to trade techs anymore with you for fear that the Federation will benefit by getting it for free through our Planetary Datalinks!

We feel that our offer should not be turned down lightly if the Gaian Union wishes to remain a major power in this game.

On a related note, the Junta has agreed to let me set out the Realpolitik of the current situation as we see it, so let me explain to you the other alternative:

We are now at vendetta with the Gaian Union and the Data Angels.

After we'll get the official stance of your two governements about this, we'll take decisions and start implementing them during our next turn.

If Spartan negotiators should happen to defuse the current state of war with the Angels while the Gaian Union elects to stay in Vendetta, I let you, of course, imagine what would happen.

But, even in the case of a war on two fronts, history shows that the winning strategy has often been to concentrate on the weakest enemy first and take them down. And at the expense of being labeled a sabrerattler, it must be obvious to you that in such a case, the Gaian Union would be that weakest link, and that the current geopolitics on Chiron would severly hinder anyone from helping you, should we decide to impose a Treaty by ......... by means other than politics.

You now have a choice - knowing all the facts - whether you want peaceful cohabitation with the Federation and accept a deal hugely favouring the Union, or accept the consequences of ignoring our offer, remaining in vendetta, and ultimately reaping the grapes of wrath.

{We'd like to know your reply before our next Council of War in 2183, and really hope peaceful collaboration between our two great factiions is still possible.}

With all Spartan consideration and respect,

Ambassador John Polton

I put the tail end paragraph in italics, as we might want to wait until we open the turn to see if they indeed have accepted the treaty offer I put in the diplo box - if they have, then the message becomes just a trade offer. if they are still in vendetta, thern we can send this out with the date being one year later.

I think that the turn has moved too quickly for the Gaians and Angels to have collaborated on a joint military strategy that will affect us this turn (air strikes at the ships and bases, etc). The Angels' tactics seem to be reactionary rather than pro-active (blocking access with a needlejet, dropping 2 probes, etc) and it'll take time for them to assemble any kind of task force - or upgrade offensive units to drop capability - so I think we might just see some pinprick action these next couple of turns

[Modo44]

I say send it. No harm trying, and getting any response would already be good.

I love the "I let you, of course, imagine what would happen." icing, by the way.

[Maniac]

Do you know we'll get Centauri Empathy in six turns via the Planetary Datalinks?

The Angels and Gaians already have it, and the Hive is researching it.