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**Maniac** · November 25, 2004, 07:46

Re: 2149: Pre-planning discussion and build/movement orders

Originally posted by Googlie
Proposed 2149 moves

Sounds great!
I've got a few comments and suggestions for discussion.

[*]Gythium Harbour: - A Colony Pod (reaches 4 pops in 5 turns)[/list]

Due to GH's low mineral production that colony pod could never be finished before the base grows, even if we reverse our current plan to rehome units to GH. This would mean GH would have to employ a doctor. However I think this isn't so bad for two reasons:
1) The tiles around GH are relatively unterraformed, so an extra worker instead of doctor wouldn't be able to give us much anyway.
2) Putting a doctor there would make one citizen content (one drone into a worker). This would mean we could let GH be garrisoned by two hoplites, and move the ogre to another more productive base which we could then let grow to size 3 perhaps.

Unit Moves[list][*]Pegasus: - W x 2, then drops off probe teams and then E x 1 to vamoose[*]Peg's Longstriders: - first one takes out the Morgan probe defender, then #2 infiltrates Morgan Corporation

Will we attack with the elite or veteran probe team first?
My experience with the simulator is that if I attack and destroy the Morganite probe with the elite probe team, that probe still has one MP left to infiltrate the Morganites and return to our homelands. Then the trannie can turn back with the second probe unused.

The opposite, attacking with the veteran probe team, would probably mean the unit will end it turn stranded on Morganite territory, and be destroyed by Morganite probe forces as a consequence.

**Googlie** · November 25, 2004, 10:07

Couple of great suggestions!!

At some point I think we should let GH grow and flourish - maybe with a rec commons and a few forested tiles around for minerals - perhaps a boregole when we have the luxury of tying up Tomcats there. It's one of ghe few coastal bases we have and prolly one that should be churning out some decent naval vessels.

Re the probes: Unloading just one Elite unit makes a lot of sense. If Morgan just has 1 probe defender there, and our Elite fights and infiltrates (thus returning to Sector Craterwest) how about sending Pegasus and the other probe south to try and find - and infiltrate - the Angels? The returned Elite can then mosey up to Vlad for Uni duty.

(Vander Eudaimonics is down to a size 1 now - see the Morgan profile from the commlinks button. It's a good job we don't eliminate the base when attacking their probe defender!!)

**Maniac** · November 25, 2004, 11:11

Originally posted by Googlie
Re the probes: Unloading just one Elite unit makes a lot of sense. If Morgan just has 1 probe defender there, and our Elite fights and infiltrates (thus returning to Sector Craterwest) how about sending Pegasus and the other probe south to try and find - and infiltrate - the Angels? The returned Elite can then mosey up to Vlad for Uni duty.

Great idea! Also since the SNC Pegasus will have one spot free, who knows it could pop an artifact or rover (or pick up R-112 eventually).

At some point I think we should let GH grow and flourish - maybe with a rec commons and a few forested tiles around for minerals - perhaps a boregole when we have the luxury of tying up Tomcats there. It's one of ghe few coastal bases we have and prolly one that should be churning out some decent naval vessels.

I agree.

Though personally I'd wait for letting the base grow further (by rec commons, creche etc) until Phase Three.

However before that time we could perhaps rehome some crawlers (once we have a few more) to our coastal bases, making them our big production bases instead of our inland bases?

On the other hand of course our coastal bases don't really need high production: We could simply use crawler-hurrying (to build expensive ships & navy seals or as you suggest hurry a CP or rec commons after all

)!! Crawler-hurrying removes one reason not to build rec commons: them being so expensive.

That's why I'm wondering about this:

Build Orders

Minas Tirith: - A super speeder crawler with Plasma Armor and trance
Vladivostok: - likewise
Sector Cratersouth: - likewise (in case I'm wrong about MT being the nearest base to the Hunter podpop)

Should we really prototype plasma armour, again annulling our ability to crawler-hurry?

A 0-3t-2 180-min crawler only costs 30 minerals more than a 0-2t-2 150-min crawler. Personally I think the ability and flexibility of crawler-hurrying will give us much more advantage than getting 30 minerals extra very rarely.

In the War planning thread you proposed to send a few plasma defenders to Uni continent to defend against his Ogres. However those ogres only have one MP and thus move slowly. I think our elite impact rovers should be able to deal with them well before they come near any base (or as you suggested, mind controlling them would be even better

). The UoP might of course build a rare impact rover themselves, but would an elite or commando 1-2t-2 also not be able to defend against those?

On the whole I think we could get much more advantage out of crawler-hurrying.

[*]Scout garrisonning OA swaps with scout in Santiago Citadel (which is homed to GH)

I'm afraid that unfortunately probably won't be possible.

From the MY 2148 thread:

Btw, there's a little thing I noticed in the previous save: two hoplites in Minas Tirith and Santiago Citadel are set to "On Alert" instead of on "L" = "Sentry - Board Transport". A few years ago we discovered this makes you unable to move the unit at all. May I therefore suggest to cancel the current orders of those units and change them to "L" instead next turn? Otherwise we won't be able to move our units around for rehoming and support purposes etc.

An alternative could perhaps be switch the SC4 garrison with the GH garrison next turn and rehome it? Still achieves the goal of gathering all support in as little bases as possible.

The OA garrison could then perhaps in MY 2150 switch with the SC1 garrison, after the current SC1 production is finished?

[*]SC4's Colony Pod moves to GH en route to reendezvousing with the Hermes on the eastern coast[*]Minas Tirith's Hoplite moves NE to rendezvous with the SC4 Colony Pod heading east[/list]

Re the CP, why move to GH? Have you noticed a faster route than the following: to SC2, then SC1, followed by moving to the coast using Gunrunner's Creek?
Re MT's hoplite, will it be able to rendez-vous with the CP in time? I had a look at the map and as far as I could see it would arrive one turn too late and be unable to escort the CP through the fungus.

An alternative could be to let a SC1 hoplite escort the CP, and let OA build a replacement hoplite for SC1 after the CN is finished?

**Googlie** · November 25, 2004, 11:29

Originally posted by Maniac
Btw, there's a little thing I noticed in the previous save: two hoplites in Minas Tirith and Santiago Citadel are set to "On Alert" instead of on "L" = "Sentry - Board Transport". A few years ago we discovered this makes you unable to move the unit at all. May I therefore suggest to cancel the current orders of those units and change them to "L" instead next turn? Otherwise we won't be able to move our units around for rehoming and support purposes etc.

I skimmed thru that first time. Do you have "cancel Orders" activated? (I do, and on clicking any unit on alert, it reactivates with full movement points that turn - except interceptors)

Attached Files

**Maniac** · November 25, 2004, 11:32

Wow didn't know that

thanks for telling!

I'll go check it out and set to "cancel orders".

**Googlie** · November 25, 2004, 11:46

Originally posted by Maniac
Re the CP, why move to GH? Have you noticed a faster route than the following: to SC2, then SC1, followed by moving to the coast using Gunrunner's Creek?
Re MT's hoplite, will it be able to rendez-vous with the CP in time? I had a look at the map and as far as I could see it would arrive one turn too late and be unable to escort the CP through the fungus.
An alternative could be to let a SC1 hoplite escort the CP, and let OA build a replacement hoplite for SC1 after the CN is finished?

This is true - but as it'll take 7 turns for the Hermes to reach the mouth of the Creek, the CP could hold for a turn in Sparta Command.

Actually, it'd be better for it to board the Hermes in Amursky Bay. Hermes will be there in 2152, and the Colony Pod will reach Vlad's SW suburbs in 2151. It can transfer to the Mercury at sea, and thus avoid moving thru the fungus completely

**Googlie** · November 25, 2004, 11:54

Originally posted by Maniac
Should we really prototype plasma armour, again annulling our ability to crawler-hurry?
A 0-3t-2 180-min crawler only costs 30 minerals more than a 0-2t-2 150-min crawler. Personally I think the ability and flexibility of crawler-hurrying will give us much more advantage than getting 30 minerals extra very rarely.

Good points. I guess I don't often use the crawler upgrades for prototyping

**Maniac** · November 25, 2004, 12:42

Originally posted by Googlie
Actually, it'd be better for it to board the Hermes in Amursky Bay. Hermes will be there in 2152, and the Colony Pod will reach Vlad's SW suburbs in 2151. It can transfer to the Mercury at sea, and thus avoid moving thru the fungus completely

Even better! In that case the MT hoplite could even move directly over land to the base site, without the need for escorting the CP.

**Googlie** · November 25, 2004, 18:57

Originally posted by Maniac
Even better! In that case the MT hoplite could even move directly over land to the base site, without the need for escorting the CP.

**Googlie** · November 28, 2004, 01:01

Just to summarize (the posts in the Gaian Summit thread) - I'll still do the turns for the next four to five weeks, then take a six week break while I'm inundated with houseguests

But Maniac - you'll still do the micromanagement, feeding me the requisite orders? (or do you want me to hang the turn in the forum for you to download and then execute the worker allocations, etc? I'd actually like to execute your orders, as then I do get a better feel of the differences they make)

EDIT: And I've updated the first post in the thread to reflect the discussions around these orders

**Maniac** · November 28, 2004, 17:44

Sure, sounds great.

Btw, I've got a question. Since the veteran probe team in the SNC Pegasus will now proceed to probe the Angels, there is only probe team available to depart to Uniland. Is that sufficient or not?
If we'd build another probe team (at OA for example after the CN), we're certain we can also probe the Uni maps should the elite probe team be captured after stealing EnvEcon.
Downside of course of building an extra probe team is that we have one crawler less, which means a delay in building the MCC.

Either action's fine by me. What do you think we should do?

I've got a couple other possible suggestions for next year:

How about moving and rehoming the SC4 garrison to GH (and of course move the current GH garrison to SC4)? IIRC that will reduce GH mineral production to zero for next turn. We can always move it back later if we want to.

I see the energy allocations are 40% economy & 60% labs. Should they be 60% economy & 40% labs instead?

Just for all clarity (as it's not in the orders), will the former currently in Rio Grande help in building the rocky mineral mine?

**Googlie** · November 28, 2004, 20:29

Originally posted by Maniac
Btw, I've got a question. Since the veteran probe team in the SNC Pegasus will now proceed to probe the Angels, there is only probe team available to depart to Uniland. Is that sufficient or not?

If we'd build another probe team (at OA for example after the CN), we're certain we can also probe the Uni maps should the elite probe team be captured after stealing EnvEcon.

Downside of course of building an extra probe team is that we have one crawler less, which means a delay in building the MCC

Well, current intentions are to send the about-to-be-commissioned Crypteia from GH up to Vlad for guardprobe duty. We could go with the original thought and send that one down to MT, and deploy the longstrider up to Vlad. He'll be better for offensive probe action anyway (with 2 mps) and will always get returned to Vlad when finished.

The only reason to send him to MT was a time factor. He'll be there in 3 turns versus 6 for the Crypteia (we'd actually be quicker to fresh build a Crypteia for MT - 5 turns - than moving one from GH

I've got a couple other possible suggestions for next year:

How about moving and rehoming the SC4 garrison to GH (and of course move the current GH garrison to SC4)? IIRC that will reduce GH mineral production to zero for next turn. We can always move it back later if we want to.

I see the energy allocations are 40% economy & 60% labs. Should they be 60% economy & 40% labs instead?

LOL (or not so LOL as the case might be) - I totally screwed up on that one. I read the earlier suggestion to move the sliders, and couldn't for the life of me figure why 53 turns to next tech, with 3 income (but -12% labs and -24% econ) was any better than the (then) current 56 years with 3 income and 0 inefficiency, but figured "hey, Maniac's the micromanager", so went ahead and moved them. Of course, I set them the wrong way round!!

(I guess it pays to ask when it's not clear, eh?)

Just for all clarity (as it's not in the orders), will the former currently in Rio Grande help in building the rocky mineral mine?

No - that former was the one I moved by mistake into the base. Wasn't it going to plant a forest in 52:14 (a rolling and arid crater tile) that could be worked by any of the 3 bases - SC3, FB or RG>

With the mine being on the river now, though, it could deploy there in 2149 and commence working with the other 2 already there that same year, so prolly the mine completion would be advanced from 2154 to 2152

(Actually, I think it's going there whether we like it or not. I see from the save that I'd tried to send it there last turn, - from 55:13 - but it stalled in the base. So it's under movement orders to go there, so will prolly get there imemdiately on opening the turn)

G.

**Maniac** · November 29, 2004, 10:10

Originally posted by Googlie
Well, current intentions are to send the about-to-be-commissioned Crypteia from GH up to Vlad for guardprobe duty. We could go with the original thought and send that one down to MT, and deploy the longstrider up to Vlad. He'll be better for offensive probe action anyway (with 2 mps) and will always get returned to Vlad when finished.

Sounds great to me.

The only reason to send him to MT was a time factor. He'll be there in 3 turns versus 6 for the Crypteia (we'd actually be quicker to fresh build a Crypteia for MT - 5 turns - than moving one from GH

A Crypteia in MT in five turns. Is that calculated when Minas Tirith would start training of a Crypteia right now, or after building another hoplite? Problem is that MT will grow in a few turns, so will need a second hoplite soon.

We could of course let the hoplite just trained in MT stay in that base after all, but that would then mean we'd need to squeeze in a hoplite training after all in one of our core bases, to escort the SC4 CP to its Hive border location.

Or of course build a hoplite first in MT, then a Crypteia, and hurry that production when it has reached 10 mins.

With the mine being on the river now, though, it could deploy there in 2149 and commence working with the other 2 already there that same year, so prolly the mine completion would be advanced from 2154 to 2152

Yeah I think too that would give most advantage under the current situation.

Btw, I don't know if I already suggested this somewhere, but in case not, how about the following worker relocations:
GH worker moves from the 3-1-0 farm to a 2-1-0 tile.
SC1 forest worker moves from the 1-2-2 tile to the 3-1-0 farm.
SC2 2-1-0 worker moves to the forest.

Result of this all would be that SC1 would grow faster, in two turns.

(And since SC1 has only one b-drone at the moment, by stationing an extra hoplite there (currently under SC1 production IIRC?) we can easily quell the drone and hace a productive worker.

)

**Googlie** · November 29, 2004, 11:57

**Jackpot!! **

I went to bed last evening after just doing the infiltration and prepping & posting the screenies, so first thing this morning continued the turn.

Popped a completion with the Hunter and the Mercury. (You know, I think, based on yon simulation I ran a couple of months ago, that the odds do increase if a new build command is put in a base immediately before popping a pod)

As this may alter somewhat our proposed rehoming (eg, we might want to rehome - temporarily - that Sparta Command scout currently in SC4 to SC4 itself, as the speeder crawler doesn't need any SCC4 minerals this turn - perhaps the same with the rovers boarding the Mercury at Vlad - rehome a couple to Vlad.)

Midturn save attached for review and discussion

(Unit moves this turn so far - all ships and rovers, and former at RG onto mine (for completion in 2 turns)

Attached Files

acdg3-sparta,2149mid.zip (68.6 KB, 46 views)

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2149: Pre-planning discussion and build/movement orders

2149: Pre-planning discussion and build/movement orders

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