Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

The Economic Planning Agency

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • The Economic Planning Agency

    Googlie's comment a while ago:

    Well, at some point we're going to have to bite the bullet and grow our pop, or risk being relegated, along with the Gaians and the Angels, to bystanders as Morgan, the Hive and, to a lesser extent (if we have anything to say on the matter), the Uni-PK alliance, vie for supremacy

    Even if that means building some rec commons in our fast-growth bases
    brought it to my mind that we don't really have a clearly stated plan for the economic development of our faction. As far as I know we've been more or less reacting ad hoc to the latest developments, without an “official” longterm plan to guide our actions.

    That's why I've started this thread, so we could discuss our longterm economic strategy. I'll post below the idea I have been walking around with and basing my suggestions upon. Then perhaps others could post their ideas and then we can all discuss the merits and downsides of all the various plans.

    Here we go as far as I'm concerned:
    My plan for our possible midterm future development would go in three phases:

    First phase and priority would be to to slow down growth in our size 2 & 3 bases, so we don’t have to spend all our minerals on building colony pods non-stop. This involves planting more forests so those can be worked instead of the 2-1-0 tiles. Building more formers might be required to plant sufficient forests in a decent timeframe.

    When we no longer have to worry about population growth growing out of control, we can spend our minerals on other priorities. I think the best investment we can do in our current situation is harvesting four minerals on rocky mine squares. So the second phase would involve building and placing supply crawlers on all the nearby rocky squares, and of course build sufficient formers to construct the necessary mines.

    After that we'd have a sufficiently high mineral production and large engineering corps to begin the third fase: popbooming! This involving building children's creches, rec commons and possibly tree farms. Especially here crawler-hurrying would become useful to speed up construction of those facilities. All our bases could build crawlers and they could all be sent to a limited number of bases to prepare those for popbooming in record time.

    What do you think?
    Contraria sunt Complementa. -- Niels Bohr
    Mods: SMAniaC (SMAC) & Planetfall (Civ4)

  • #2
    It's a sound strategy - but I need one clarification. Plant foreets over the farms, or in tiles adjacent to or elsewhere (to be crawled)

    If over, then hybrid forests are a must (prolly a must anyway, thru treefarms that give some drone control boosts) for the nut boost they give

    If adjacent, then that's OK too, 'cos we'll still have the underlying farms to boost nuts (but a lot cheaper and faster - initially - than TF's and HF's

    Comment


    • #3
      Personally I'd consider a waste to re-terraform already farmed tiles, while we still have so many unterraformed tiles left. So personally I'd prefer not to plant forests over farms.
      Contraria sunt Complementa. -- Niels Bohr
      Mods: SMAniaC (SMAC) & Planetfall (Civ4)

      Comment


      • #4


        d'accord

        Comment


        • #5
          While it seemed obvious building tree farms in our Peloponnesian bases was not worth the cost at the moment, and building condensers was the way to go, I assumed it would be profitable and certainly quicker to popboom with tree farms in Arcadia, as that option wouldn't require us to build a former corps out of nothing in Arcadia.

          However I've now done the math a bit more thoroughly, and it appears the tree farm option is hardly profitable at all, even in Arcadia.

          Here's the investment we'd need to make to popboom an Arcadian bases. I've taken the example of Argos, as that's a small base meaning it can still popboom a lot.

          creche 5 rows
          tree farm 12 rows
          rec commons 4 rows
          CDF 1 row
          ---
          22 mineral rows

          In Argos this would lead to an increase of 7 minerals, 5 credits and 2.4 labs after deducting support and maintenance costs.

          By comparison, if we just built 7 crawlers (21 rows), we'd get 14 minerals when harvesting forests. Double that amount if we harvested mines, but then of course we'd first need the formers to build those mines...

          In other words, tree farms hardly seem worth to build in all Arcadian bases, if the goal is to increase them all to size seven.

          To sufficiently win back the high investment cost of tree farms and make a profit higher than simple forest crawling, we'd need to popboom our bases to size fourteen.

          For that reason, may I suggest to focus our infrastructure improvement in Arcadia on Fort Superiority and Arcadia University for now? There the return is highest. Fort Soup already has a tree farm and a hologram theatre. AU also has a hologram theatre, and has the Merchant Exchange meaning each citizen gives one more energy. Tree farm and hologram theatre together double psych production, meaning only two doctors would be needed to keep all citizens above size seven content.

          Building a modest former fleet in Arcadia would in this option be required after all, to construct a few condensers to feed the doctors in FS & AU, and still keep the 2 nut surplus required to popboom.


          Oh, for the record, the Ascetic Virtues with its extra two citizens before the hab complex limit, and the +1 Police to easily control those two drones, would make building tree farms to popboom to the hab complex limit (size nine then) profitable after all.
          Contraria sunt Complementa. -- Niels Bohr
          Mods: SMAniaC (SMAC) & Planetfall (Civ4)

          Comment


          • #6
            Yes, the big bases profit more from Tree Farms. As to Argos, or any base with many Forest tiles, the investment is long-term. Also, there is the economy boost (Tree Farm + tiles worked by the added population) Crawlers simply do not bring. Again, this is about the gains from steady growth against the short-term increase. And since the end of the game is not defined yet, what do you think is the better choice? I mean, can the short-term increase provide us with a win?

            One question about base structures. Does it make any sense to build Creches before Rec Tanks in bases with zero growth? Can we shift enough food to make them grow?
            Last edited by Modo44; May 3, 2005, 07:49.
            Seriously. Kung freaking fu.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Modo44
              Also, there is the economy boost (Tree Farm + tiles worked by the added population) Crawlers simply do not bring.
              Indeed. In addition to 7 minerals tree farms would also provide Argos with 5 credits and 2 labs. However if I had to make the choice between that or 14 minerals, I'd choose the 14 minerals.

              But for the record, I'm not suggesting to not build tree farms ever in Argos. Just to wait until we're ready, which means until we can popboom straight to size 14 instead of just 7.

              One question about base structures. Does it make any sense to build Creches before Rec Tanks in bases with zero growth? Can we shift enough food to make them grow?
              When faced with that choice, personally I'd say to build extra formers first to build a condenser farm. After the first condenser is ready and there's a nutrient surplus, I'd suggest to build the creche.
              Contraria sunt Complementa. -- Niels Bohr
              Mods: SMAniaC (SMAC) & Planetfall (Civ4)

              Comment


              • #8
                I am beginning to see. You mean to:
                • Improve minerals output in bases at zero production with Crawlers.
                • Build the necessary infrastructure to support growth and a high population.
                • Then let bases grow.

                I still find rushing the cheap structures and building Tree Farms better in Forest-rich Arcadia. The problem there is the lack of Formers. Formers we can do without, for we have the Forests. The expense can be saved and other things built/rushed instead.

                As for the main continent, that will need the Formers anyway, so anything most efficient looks like the way to go.
                Seriously. Kung freaking fu.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Modo44
                  I still find rushing the cheap structures and building Tree Farms better in Forest-rich Arcadia. The problem there is the lack of Formers. Formers we can do without, for we have the Forests. The expense can be saved and other things built/rushed instead.
                  We could indeed popboom all our Arcadian bases (except Ironholm) to size seven without building a single former. But if we want to popboom beyond size seven - which is necessary if we want to make our investment in tree farms worthwhile - we do need some formers to construct condensers. For when going above size seven, we have no other cheap choice but to use doctors to control our drones, and those don't provide nutrients. Meaning we have to get the nutrients elsewhere to stay at a +2 nutrient surplus.
                  Contraria sunt Complementa. -- Niels Bohr
                  Mods: SMAniaC (SMAC) & Planetfall (Civ4)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Or kelp farms for the coastal bases. (Arcadia University's ocean nut special is 5 nutsworth after kelping)

                    That'd need a seaformer, of course (40 mins for a foil former, 50 for a foil fungiformer, 60 for a cruiserformer and 80 for a cruiser fungiformer)

                    AU could complete a foil fungiformer in 2 turns using the MM and that next-turn crawler, plus 10 ec's, if we so wanted

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Great idea.
                      Contraria sunt Complementa. -- Niels Bohr
                      Mods: SMAniaC (SMAC) & Planetfall (Civ4)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Kelp Farms are also better because they grow sometimes without help.
                        Seriously. Kung freaking fu.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Though initially adamantly opposed, I am now really looking forward to seeing us use our massive production for long term infrastructure investments. "Pop-Boom" eh? I'm looking forward to seeing exactly what that is Go Sparta!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            80 formers, 250 crawlers, 45 borehholes .....

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Googlie
                              80 formers, 250 crawlers, 45 borehholes .....
                              I read once somewhere that the key to winning in SMAC was former armies...

                              80 formers... wow
                              -=/+\ Wuy3 /+\=-

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X