Sparta-Morgan Relations

[Googlie]

Yeah - but our crew was Hardened - theirs is Very Green

[Modo44]

Theirs is very dead, if they don't move soon.

Overall I like the attitide of Morgan. It only cost us a ship to make them look bad. And we can play the all-innocent. Just love it.

[Googlie]

Got a PM from Mead:

Text of a PM from Mead to Googlie

Resolution of Current Difficulties

Happy New Year Googlie,

I just got back in town and see a lot has happend since I left.

It's still a little sketchy (I can't get into the embassy so I'm working only of what I can read in the forums) but it looks like the following happened.

Our probe was exploring in the northern sea.

Sparta declared a MODO (I think) doctraine claiming to extend its terrtitorial seas eight squares out into the international seas.

Our probe discovered the Hunter in international waters (but within the area Sparta attempted to claim).

I think Sparta stated it would destroy any ships
within the claimed area.

Even though the probe action cost a lot of money, it was clear to the crew of the probefoil that it would be killed the next turn if it did not probe the Hunter. In self defense the probe foil probed the Hunter.

Please let me know if I have missed anything.

Mead

and my reply:

e-mail reply to Mead by Googlie


And a Happy New year to you, too, Mead:

A somewhat ingenuous defense, if I may say so.

My comments annotated to your message:

It's still a little sketchy (I can't get into the embassy)


The Embassy was destroyed by a crazed horde of Spartan Helots who lost loved ones on board the Hunter (I took it off-line, but it made a great fiction story piece - I'm shortly going to post it in the general forum where jtsisyoda posted about Ambassador Mead vacating the Embassy)


so I'm working only of what I can read in the forums) but it looks like the following happened.

Our probe was exploring in the northern sea.

Sparta declared a MODO (I think) doctraine claiming to extend its terrtitorial seas eight squares out into the international seas.

8 squares from our nearest bases

Our probe discovered the Hunter in international waters (but within the area Sparta attempted to claim).

The Hunter was exactly 8 tiles form our nearest base - on patrol

I think Sparta stated it would destroy any ships within the claimed area.

Indeed we did

Even though the probe action cost a lot of money, it was clear to the crew of the probefoil that it would be killed the next turn if it did not probe the Hunter. In self defense the probe foil probed the Hunter.

1 tile north and 1 northeast would have been at our limit (and on the diagonal northeast from that) - 2 tiles north or northwest would have been outside our claimed waters. There were clear alternatives to mind-controlling the vessel

Please let me know if I have missed anything.

Mead


Ambassador Lieutenant-Colonel Kassiopeia has been charged with ongoing discussions with the Corporation. The replacement costs for the SCC Hunter have been set at 120 energy credits (to rush build a replacement from scratch)

Of course, returning the Hunter to a Spartan port, and ceding control back to Sparta, would ameliorate these costs significantly. But I will leave these negotiations to the Lt Colonel.

For our part, we saw the action of the Corporation as being somewhat of an opportunistic nature, occupied as we were with the liberation of North Arcadia. You saw the ship, you could "poke us in the eye" by acquiring it in retribution for our killing of your defense attorney and at the same time suspend due payments for traded technologies, while we were engaged elsewhere.

Relations are therefore at a low point, understandably. I don't know what Lt-Col Kassiopeia can salvage, but just remember - and pass it on to your colleagues - Sparta has a long memory.

Colonel Googlie

(This message has also has been posted in the Morgan War thread)

[Kassiopeia]

Ah, excellent. I was too busy yesterday to write, but today I'll try to talk with the Gaian and Angel diplomatic corps to make sure they stay neutral.

[Googlie]

Anything to report?

• Morgan - negotiating a re-instatement of the Treaty and resumption of the technology payments
• Gaians - selling them Ecological Engineering before Morgan meets them/gets their commlink and trades that tech to them
• Angels - ditto as Gaians, plus agreement to let us probesteal Int Int if we get sunspots in the meantime
• Angels and Gaians - ensuring their neutrality in the upcoming Sparta-Morgan war

I don't want to be a pest, but the turn is already overdue (from the Gaians to the Angels) so it's prolly too late for the Gaians to put any credits in the diplo box for us as they'll like/need to discuss it fully internally first.

G.

[Kassiopeia]

I was simply just too busy to do anything. As I mentioned in one of our turnchats, I managed to get a bit ill earlier this week. (Even now I am a bit too tired to be doing this, but what the hey.) Here, anyway, is what I've got so far written:

To my esteemed colleagues in the Datatech diplomatic corps.

The passing Mission Year has been tumultous as far as our relationship with Morgan Industries is concerned. However, even though they did engage in an act of aggression against us, we are currently engaged in peace talks. This is taking place in the belief that the Morganite vendetta against us does not escalate any further; therefore the Federation wishes to assure you that it expects no military aid whatsoever from the Angels.

In a similar vein, the Junta hopes that you will uphold our beneficial and lucrative trade relations by staying out of this conflict altogether. It is, thankfully, none of your concern. It's just a single foil it's all about, after all. I am certain that we possess technology that is of interest to you and which we can provide at an amicable price.

I would also like to bring to your attention the fact that sunspots are a possible danger to communications and that we would like to ask you to consider that we would be able to use a probe team to acquire Intellectual Integrity from you once you have researched it, if sunspots prohibit a transfer of the tech through normal channels.

Due to sunspots we are also hoping that you will quickly consider what you would be willing to pay us for Ecological Engineering. We are also considering a following leapfrog scheme that would benefit us both and the Gaians. This is assuming the Gaians are researching EcolEng.

1. Sparta gives Gaians EcolEng.
2. Gaia switches research to IntInt, provided they could get IntInt several years earlier than the Angels.
3. Gaia gives us - and the Angels - IntInt when it's researched. What Gaia gets in return from the Angels, is up to them.
4. The Angels switch research to Cyberethics (should that be possible), and give it to us when researched.

And:

Lord Chaos Theory,

I have something to discuss with you.

The passing turn has been stormy as far as our relationship with Morgan Industries is concerned. However, even though they did engage in an act of aggression against us, we are currently negotiating a peace treaty with them. This is taking place in the belief that the Morganite vendetta against us does not escalate any further; therefore the Federation wishes to assure you that it expects no military aid whatsoever from the Gaians.

In a similar vein, the Junta hopes that you will uphold our beneficial and lucrative trade relations by staying out of this conflict altogether. It is, thankfully, none of your concern. One foil can be easily paid back with the energy hoard the Morganites are sitting on.

Due to sunspots we are also hoping that you will quickly consider what you would be willing to pay us for Ecological Engineering. We are also considering a following leapfrog scheme that would benefit us both and the Angels. This is assuming you, the Gaians, are researching EcolEng.

1. Sparta gives Gaians EcolEng.
2. Gaia switches research to IntInt, provided they could get IntInt several years earlier than the Angels.
3. Gaia gives us - and the Angels - IntInt when it's researched. What Gaia gets in return from the Angels, is up to them.
4. The Angels switch research to Cyberethics (should that be possible), and give it to us when researched.

This was a bit difficult and I want you to check it out with a tight comb, because the whole tech trade scheme is somehow confusing to me. I just can't wrap my head around it, so I just copypasted what Maniac wrote.

[Kassiopeia]

Nnnngh, I see that Googlie went offline - I need to go to bed once I've sent my feet-dragging PM to Mead, so Googlie or Maniac, since we seem to be in a hurry, either of you may post and send those messages above (mention that they're from me, or come up with something, or something) as soon as you have confirmed that there's nothing wrong with them.

[Kassiopeia]

I'm back online, so just give me the word and we're all set.

[Googlie]

- looks OK to me. Has my vote

[Kassiopeia]

Good. I only needed a review from another pair of eyes, since the messages are supposed to contain the things we've already had consensus upon - therefore I'm going ahead with them.

I also sent this to Mead last night (or, rather, this is the meat of the message). Observe the lack of any suggestions as to what would an appropriate reparation.

Your gall astounds me. You have subverted a perfectly fine sea-going vessel worth a substantial amount of energy credits, and now you suggest that we pay you 2 ec per turn for the privilege of receiving information from a ship that was ours in the first place?

While the Junta's ear is open to offers of recompensation for the lost vessel, this proposition is absurd. I can only hope for the sake of our peaceful coexistence that this is a Morganite negotiation tactic, so that a ridiculous proposition will seem moderate in comparison.

I also fail to see how self-defence was an issue - the Hunter was on a mission of exploration and our factions were not at war. As you later state in your own message, "I can see it being in effect against large invasion fleets, but not for small ships engaged in exploration or trade." Your own invocation of the Modo Doctrine therefore seems odd at best and hypocritical at worst.

For now, let's not have any unfriendly actions against Spartan or Morgan forces and just get back to cooperative, profitable, peace.

This is acceptable, as long as our negotiations vis-a-vis proper compensation for the Hunter are proceeding.

[Maniac]

Ooh, great message to Mead.

[Googlie]

This PM from argenine is interesting:

PM to Googlie from Argenine
Looking back

I heard in the pub that the Federation captured Paramaria, so the war must be proving profitable for the Federation.

A question I have is: Did Morgan Industries bring the issue of the vessel spotted in its territorial waters and engage in negotiations before its buyout?

It is unfortunate that the corporation did not engage in the buying and selling of units as originally hoped for. While it would have been tedious, I figure that could have been mitigated in ways. Hopefully I can get something like that next ACDG.

Good work by Snoddasmannen!!

[Snoddasmannen]

But I never meant for it to be interpreted like that

[Maniac]

[Modo44]

Poor, confused soul.