Sparta-Gaian relations

[Googlie]

Good point, Snoddasmannen

(We can always play "Good Cop - Bad Cop" where I am seen to be a dove, trying my best for a fair shake for the Gaians, but getting outvoted in the Junta by the more militant Spartan Officers ..........)

G.

[Kassiopeia]

Snoddasmannen

I could do the "Bad Cop" routine while Googlie does "Good Cop" - Googlie is after all not the diplomat as such, so he will seem to be sort of like an official who is getting involved but without the proper "Spartan credentials" - that is, a good strategist but not a suitably aggressive diplomat as far as Sparta is concerned.

Oh, and what "Ambassadorial Forum"? I thought diplomacy's run by PMs?

[Maniac]

http://www.aimoo.com/forum/freeboard.cfm?id=617927

password "warlock"

I've also edited the first post to include a link to this forum.

[Maniac]

Snoddasmannen
I agree we as militarist Spartans can use a treaty as a bargaining chip in negotiations.
Perhaps we could offer treaties of limited duration, say ten years, to be reviewed after that time. I can think of two advantages right now such an approach could give:
a) We could declare war on a faction after the agreed upon treaty time has expired, without officially breaking any agreement.
b) We can ask for a compensation to continue to be in a state of treaty. I'm specifically thinking of the Morganites here, as due to their commerce advantage they'll get much more energy and advantage from a treaty than us.

The big downside of such an approach would of course be that other factions could become less inclined to trust us and trade with us.

[Kassiopeia]

Originally posted by Maniac

http://www.aimoo.com/forum/freeboard.cfm?id=617927

password "warlock"

I've also edited the first post to include a link to this forum.

Ah, thanks. I'll whip up a greeting to the Gaians and then move on to the tech negotiations. So what do we want from them? IndAuto? And we'll offer, what, AppPhys in turn? I need to know what I'm working with here.

[Zeiter]

For the others, the good cop-bad cop routine definitely sounds great. But with the Gaians, if we are trying to establish long term cooperation with them (as I suggest) then I'd just play good cop with them.

[Kassiopeia]

I have to kind of agree that. I tried to write in Bad Cop but I couldn't do it. Either because I can't or because it felt like the wrong thing to do right now.

We could, however, try to bring up the limited duration treaties and simply state that we do no want to commit ourselves for too long a period of time unless we REALLY trust them. That could entice more co-operation out of them.

[Maniac]

If necessary, I'm always willing to do the Bad Cop routine with the Angels. All for the benefit of the team of course!

[Kassiopeia]

So, how about this:

We have observed that your faction is at war with another faction, the Human Hive. The Federation has a certain amount of weight in the ears of the Chairman, and I could be able to persuade him to call off his vendetta. Naturally, he will demand some appeasing, in the form of lots, and lots, and LOTS of food - as you might have read from The Phalanx, he isn't the thinnest of gentlemen. To produce all that food we require Industrial Automation. Of course this trade is a bit off balance, so we are also willing to provide you with a Level 1 technology to help with your defence, such as Applied Physics or Doctrine: Mobility.

AFAIK I'm not giving anything away, they can find out what they have that we don't easily, and it ought to be obvious that the *Spartans* have AppPhys.

This of course is an initial suggestion, I fully expect them to want for something more. That's where the little trinkets like commlinks and maps come to play.

[Kassiopeia]

Okay, and then there's this:

My greetings to Lady Skye and to the Gaian Union. I am Major Kassiopeia, Chief Diplomat of the Junta, and will act as your liaison between our two factions. I am glad to see that you are willing to co-operate with us, and hope that we can continue to do so in the future.

Your offer of Treaty of Friendship is accepted, if with a certain degree of caution. We are an isolationist people and see such agreements more often than not as liabilities, not items of trust and celebration. Therefore we are compelled to mention that this Treaty should not be considered a permanent one as such, but a temporary one of ten Mission Years. However, if the Gaian Union is deemed trustworthy and friendly over these ten years, the Treaty will most assuredly be extended, or made permanent.

Thoughts? Comments?

[Snoddasmannen]

Originally posted by Kassiopeia
Okay, and then there's this:
My greetings to Lady Skye and to the Gaian Union. I am Major Kassiopeia, Chief Diplomat of the Junta, and will act as your liaison between our two factions. I am glad to see that you are willing to co-operate with us, and hope that we can continue to do so in the future.

Your offer of Treaty of Friendship is accepted, if with a certain degree of caution. We are an isolationist people and see such agreements more often than not as liabilities, not items of trust and celebration. Therefore we are compelled to mention that this Treaty should not be considered a permanent one as such, but a temporary one of ten Mission Years. However, if the Gaian Union is deemed trustworthy and friendly over these ten years, the Treaty will most assuredly be extended, or made permanent.
Thoughts? Comments?

I like this rhetoric very much. Forceful and slightly non-commital is good. We don't want them to think they have us under control.

Maybe we should even make them think we are considering to pact with the Hive ... You could hook something like that to your ending paragraph about the extension after ten years. Something along the lines that we could find other factions in the area who are willing to be more cooperative.

The idea of good cop / bad cop is hilarious That would be really memorable for us who are playing them and the factions encountering us. I'm just not sure how we can pull it off

[Kassiopeia]

Glad to hear you like my approach. I modified it with your suggestion, which I like as well, to this:

My greetings to Lady Skye and to the Gaian Union. I am Major Kassiopeia, Chief Diplomat of the Junta, and will act as your liaison between our two factions. I am glad to see that you are willing to co-operate with us, and hope that we can continue to do so in the future.

Your offer of Treaty of Friendship is accepted, if with a certain degree of caution. We are an isolationist people and see such agreements more often than not as liabilities, not items of trust and celebration. Therefore we are compelled to mention that this Treaty should not be considered a permanent one as such, but a temporary one of ten Mission Years. However, if the Gaian Union is deemed trustworthy and friendly these ten years, the Treaty will most assuredly be extended, or made permanent. This is our standard procedure for all factions.

The treaty can even be upgraded to a pact if deemed necessary; for instance, a ten year term with the Hive is coming to a close soon and we are discussing whether or not to agree to a pact with them. Rest assured, once you make the Spartans your friends, they will be the best of your friends.

The last line I robbed off from a foreigner describing Finns as friends - hard to make friends with, but once you do, there's no getting rid of them. The pact also puts them into a bind with our tech trade - it'd help them a lot if we agreed to get the Hive off their backs, so that if we end up in a pact with them, WE won't get any pressure from Yang to attack the Gaians.

[KrysiasKrusader]

Below in italics are my (ever so humble) suggestions to ammends...

--------------------------------------------------------------

My greetings to Lady Skye and to the Gaian Union. I am Major Kassiopeia, Senior Diplomat of the Junta, and will act as your liaison between both our factions. I am personally delighted to see that you are willing to co-operate with us, and hope that we can continue to do so in the future.

Your offer of Treaty of Friendship is accepted, although, with a certain degree of caution. We are an isolationist people and see such agreements more often than not as liabilities, not items of trust and celebration. Therefore we are compelled to mention that this Treaty should not be considered a permanent one as such, but a temporary one of eight Mission Years. However, if the Gaian Union is deemed trustworthy and friendly during this interval, the Treaty will most assuredly be extended, or made permanent. This is our standard procedure for all factions.

The treaty can even be upgraded to a pact if deemed necessary; for instance, a (I deleted the amount of time, as this is confidential data...) term with the Hive is coming to a close soon and we are discussing whether or not to agree to a pact with them. Rest assured, should you make the Spartans your friends, they will be the best of friends.

--------------------------------------------------

I love all the diplomacy, and haggling. But let us not let it get in the way of actually making a deal. We already lost an opportunity last turn. Should it have to go several turns before we can make a deal, then let's forget this.

Someone, should be negotiating immediately for a 3 - 5 way technology transfer between our factions. Including no trade to other faction clauses, perhaps coordinated research paths, intent of standings with the other factions, etc., etc.

We have an opportunity here. Let's not let it slip out of our grasp.

[KrysiasKrusader]

And who is Lady Sky?
I don't see her on the gaian roster.

I think you should address this to either Chaos Master, or Illuminatus.

[Kassiopeia]

I already have a draft for a tech trade up there. We have to be quick, but we mustn't hurry by throwing up a proposal we'll know they won't drag on, because that proposal would have to involve us giving away more than we should. Negotiating just simply needs time.

Co-ordinated research paths and no trade clauses sound good enough, I'll be sure to add them along. But we can't always reveal what we are researching, that's a bit of information the other side *won't* be able to tell by just messing with the contact screen.

As to your amendment, how about this:

My greetings to Lady Skye and to the Gaian Union. I am Major Kassiopeia, Chief (Why Senior? Both imply that there are several? I find Chief more Spartan.) Diplomat of the Junta, and will act as your liaison between both our factions. I am personally delighted (this is just icing on the cake, why not) to see that you are willing to co-operate with us, and hope that we can continue to do so in the future.

Your offer of Treaty of Friendship is accepted, although, (I can't see a nuance difference between "if" and "although" here, can you elaborate? I do find "if" more impolite in a certain way) with a certain degree of caution. We are an isolationist people and see such agreements more often than not as liabilities, not items of trust and celebration. Therefore we are compelled to mention that this Treaty should not be considered a permanent one as such, but a temporary one of ten (I like things that are divisible by five myself; I think more than eight might make them a bit more receptible?) Mission Years. However, if the Gaian Union is (removed the "deemed", gives it a more stern tone) trustworthy and friendly during this interval, the Treaty will be extended, or made permanent. This is our standard procedure for all factions.

The treaty can even be upgraded to a pact if deemed necessary; for instance, a term (true, we need not specify the term) with the Hive is coming to a close soon and we are discussing whether or not to agree to a pact with them. Rest assured, should you make the Spartans your friends, they will be the best of your friends.

Of course, if we start to nitpick over every word and phrase, diplomacy certainly won't be going as swiftly as you'd like

EDIT: "Lady Skye" is an actual member on the boards, some Gaian has registered the user and is using it to talk to us. I think addressing "it" is prudent.