2146 End Turn and 2147 Discussion

[arginine]

Regarding city placement,

I put up a city placement scheme a while back in the turn thread 'city planning'. If an alternative city placing scheme is going to be used, it would be nice for it to be posted. So far no other long term city planning scheme has materialized.

My suggestion would be NW square to (21,5), SE 1 square to (25,23), (23,21) remains in place, (35,5) to (37,5) or (35,5).
As for the other two bases, lets stick them in somewhere that they will fit in, i.e. cram them in. Here are some suggestions: (28,6), (22, 12), (18,12), (17,17), cram a base in somewhere in our south amoung the cities it they will fit in. Right now our forming isn't up to snuff (reason to try to get the clean reactor soon.)

I argue it is legal to switch the tech one is researching, because we can then switch research again back to the original tech without expenditure of reserach points. If I wanted to be really accurate and violate the rules I would have built a few cities to see how they would effect research output. I merely looked around and did completely reversible SE adjustments (like switching to demo and back).

[Mead]

Originally posted by arginine
Regarding city placement,

I put up a city placement scheme a while back in the turn thread 'city planning'. If an alternative city placing scheme is going to be used, it would be nice for it to be posted. So far no other long term city planning scheme has materialized.

My suggestion would be NW square to (21,5), SE 1 square to (25,23), (23,21) remains in place, (35,5) to (37,5) or (35,5).
As for the other two bases, lets stick them in somewhere that they will fit in, i.e. cram them in. Here are some suggestions: (28,6), (22, 12), (18,12), (17,17),

I am supporting ICS right now for immediate growth and production, so long as we get a few bases where it counts for strategic placment (towards the east and south).

I argue it is legal to switch the tech one is researching, because we can then switch research again back to the original tech without expenditure of reserach points. If I wanted to be really accurate and violate the rules I would have built a few cities to see how they would effect research output. I merely looked around and did completely reversible SE adjustments (like switching to demo and back).

The thing I think jtisyoda was asking was it permissible under the rules to check whether a tech was available before changing the research goal in the official turn play.

I agree that it should be permissible, but we should have the Gods concur, beforehand.

Mead

[gerikes]

Originally posted by Mead

The thing I think jtisyoda was asking was it permissible under the rules to check whether a tech was available before changing the research goal in the official turn play.

I agree that it should be permissible, but we should have the Gods concur, beforehand.

Mead

And Arginine is saying, I believe, that it's completely fine to try to switch research goals in the turn, because if it turns out while the turn-player plays it that we don't have the option for Adapt. Eco, the game allows you to select the tech you were already researching with no penalty (In this case, when the tech options come up, if we don't see Adapt. Eco, we can just select Social Psych without getting hit with a penalty). I don't know if this is true, though. (Although this is what I think Arg is saying, not exactly what he might actually mean :P) Could we make a test game just to test this theory?

Edit: By the way, I think we should wait for approval and see what options switching gives us in the non-official turn, but in case we don't get a response in time...

Also, I hear strong belief for (23,21) as a base site. There's currently a terraformer making a road. If we do go ahead with the plan to build there, should we save the former turns by stopping it or would there be a benefits for completing the road? For example, a colony could get there and still set up with 1/3 moves remaining (This is more a me-gaining-knowledge question than something to debate over).

[jtsisyoda]

I opened an old single-player game and tested the tech switch. You don't lose any lab points if you pick the same tech again. So, since we haven't heard from a mod yet, I'll go ahead and try switching. It would really bite, though, if neither Adap Econ nor Soc Psych became available. Ouch.

As for Gerikes' question, if you mean (23,11), yes, the road is intended to save movement so the next CP out of Mussells can found a base the same turn it's created.

Right now, I'd prefer to cram bases on the perimeter, for a couple reasons. There, we can raise land where there used to be sea. We're also sort of delaying putting down any bases until we can put down enough to make it worth switching to Democracy, so we might as well move the CP's as far as we can. Later bases, to get us to 27 bases from our current goal of 18, can then cram in the middle very quickly.

[jtsisyoda]

We lost 55 lab points switching to Adap Econ. However, we'll gain about 200 ec over five turns by building PEG 5 turns earlier. That's if we build it before the Angels, and of course switching to Adap Econ now is our best shot at that.

[jtsisyoda]

Map...

[jtsisyoda]

F4:

[jtsisyoda]

F2, labs:

[jtsisyoda]

I had our scout try to move onto the river in fungus, but encountered a worm. The odds were even, so I attacked it... we lost, though. The other scout can go south next turn to cut it off. The scout in Van Eud can head toward the volcano to cover those bases if necessary.

[gerikes]

Originally posted by jtsisyoda

As for Gerikes' question, if you mean (23,11), yes, the road is intended to save movement so the next CP out of Mussells can found a base the same turn it's created.

Yes, that's what I meant. Sorry about that. But thank you for the clarification.

Also, after you played the turn and switched the tech, I opened my game and switched and noticed that while Adaptive Economics was in the list, Social Psych was not. I don't think I'll ever understand how those menus work. :P

[Drogue]

Originally posted by jtsisyoda
Is it legal to have someone else open the turn, just to see what techs would be available if we switched?

I think this info is available with the MM tech spreadsheet, but not everybody has the software to use it. I don't have Excel.

That's fine, as long as a tech isn't chosen, and it has to be done by someone not about to play the turn 9due to reload messages).

Sorry for the delay in replying.

[gerikes]

Originally posted by Drogue

That's fine, as long as a tech isn't chosen, and it has to be done by someone not about to play the turn 9due to reload messages).

Sorry for the delay in replying.

So the person who's running the "test game" can hit Shift-R or whatever to see the options of techs to change to, but while in that test game cannot choose from this menu?

[Method]

Originally posted by THE RULES
It is allowed to build a turn simulator, where you can test out battle results or strategic plans years in advance. It is also allowed to use parallel turns of the official game to test out AI diplomacy ... or some innocent internal affairs orders (crawler & former movements etc). However it is NOT allowed to use the official game turns to play ahead by eg testing out battle orders, scouting with units, or for example moving your probe units to check the probe cost of something and only then decide whether or not you're going to probe it.
In clarification:
Any exploring, military trials or probe actions, is not allowed. Testing former orders and AI diplomacy (without accepting any deal) is allowed. For anything else, check with Drogue before hand.

Bolded relevant sections. I'd say this counts as "innocent internal affairs". And yes gerikes, that's correct.

(yay, i came to the same conclusion as drugs. all by myself! )

[Micha]

Nicely done, Method

[jtsisyoda]

I'll be unavailable for approximately 32 hours. If the turn comes around and you don't want to wait, I suggest asking Chaunk to play it.