Spartan Diplomacy

[arginine]

I would prefer we agree to a series of trades, not all at once so we won't get laden with useless techs. Namely, there are a few key techs involved.

Bioengineering (both)
D:AP (both)
I.I. (Sparta)
P.E. (us)
Eco Eng, Env. Eco. (Spartans more than us)

I wonder if it is possible to frame another faction *cough! *Gaians* cough!*.

[-SafaN-]

We need the contacts, Sparta is speaking about an ABM-axis, but we don't know its true.

In reponse of the tech trades i would be honest and say we are reseaching adapt econ.
1. They probably suspect it anyways
2. by our gamble it wil be quickly builded.
3. it doesn't matter if the DA knows it: they will build it anyways if they have the tech first, but since they are not in FM they can't speed up the tech. I don't think sparta and gaia would fund them.

The other techs i would ask for a "slower" trade. Our scientists need the time to understand every tech, so a trade would be spread out over several years.
We want to trade, but we can get clean reactor and other techs faster if we time our trading.
This will ofcourse ask much trust of both sides.

That googlie is the leader of the morgan wing is not that surprising: he started as one of us after all. Mayb we can test his loyalties by pm. Its a pity we can't pay a person alone with our ec's

We need to avoid all contacts with the hive!

BTW can someone give an idea of the power graph? I can't open the game here.

I think we are doing well, but I think after getting the PEG we need to get adequate defenses ASAP.
Morganites with HG, PTS AND PEG will scare the other human teams. I think the ganging up is a real risk. So we need to bind the spartans to us.

Greetz

[arginine]

I am in agreement with all the points Safan made in the post right above this one, except I am less cynical against the Spartans. We haven't been forthcoming with information if we were to cooperate. I figured we were waiting to get contacts before deciding to make longer and more serious dealings with the Spartans.


I think it is logical that the humans would team up against us when we have with the PTS, even though I'd like as many trading partners as possible.

Hopefully these trade deals will keep the Federation sitting on the fence until we DO get contact which will hopefully be several turns from now. They have said they will be neutral as long as possible.

I guess it is in our interest and also in the Spartans' (albeit not as much) to get them to our side. (The Spartans will be in a better position as a member of a victorious member of a 2 faction coalition instead of a 3 member coalition.).

Lets push for the beeline trades to bioengineering now.

I will be far less active in the Corporation for a while...

[Mead]

I posted this in the embassy:

I didn't take part in the first ACDG, but from what I heard, it was a truly combined human team against a greatly enhanced AI.

From the looks of the overpowering Hive it looks like we might all be facing that same threat again. (In the rules, when it talks about not using choppers against cities, does that include AI cities?)

Mead
CDO, Morgan Corp.

PS We are considering the block buster deal, but as Arginin suggests, it may be better to do it one step at a time so that both of our tech rates are not slowed down too much. Please note that I am not a tech expert and our experts (at least the ones who have logged on since we got your notice) are working on analysis right now.

Googlie also posted security status screen.

If I read it correctly, I saw only one Hive ship. So, if accurate, we should not face a sea-born Hive invasion any time soon. Additionally, our ships should have a relatively low chance of meeting a Hive ship on the open seas.


Mead

[Mead]

Renewal of the Spartan Profit-Sharing Treaty?

I've been thinking of extending the current treaty we have with Sparta for an additional 5 years, with the same terms we have right now.

Does anyone have any thoughts.

I'm thinking I would like to get an extension in place before this term expires.

Because of the current installment plan we have on our tech purchase I am not that worried about the Spartans attacking us (it's in their own best interest [8 ECs per year] not to attack us). Even so, I would like to get some predictability for the following 5 years after this current term.

I am open to suggestions as to how we should approach Sparta (or wait for them to approach us).


Mead

[gerikes]

For our own records, here is the attached picture from the embassy of the Hive's Security Nexus (wow, I can't believe this worked :P )

Speculation on this data (if they are not forged)?
One thing is the "lost units":

2 CP
1 Probe
4 Synth Sent
1 Laser Foil
1 Laser Inf.

Any guesses as to where they lost these units? Is the hive at war with someone?

[Chaunk]

Obviously I've been out of the loop for a while, but I've done my best to catch up somewhat. I thought I should go over Googlie's message with a fine tooth comb...

Re: ACDG-3 Possible Morgan-Sparta blockbuster deal

Dear Mr. Mead

While Major Kassiopeia is engaged in other, pressing, non-Federation business, I have been empowered to suggest a variant of the earlier, aborted, proposed deal.

(And by way of preamble, it's hard getting the Junta to think of dealing with Morgan - you guys are really tight lipped about what techs we have that you may be interested in.)

Do we have a list of their techs? If not (And I don't think I've read one ), then a tech list exchange seems needed before we can comment on this surely?

Here's something I put before the Junta yesterday for their consideration (I call it The Googlie Manifesto)

*************************************************

The Googlie Manifesto

Clean Reactors and the Ascetic Virtues by 2160

Bio Engineering (clean reactors) needs Gene Splicing (which we have) and Neural Grafting, which in turn needs Industrial Automation (we both have that) and Secrets (which we have)

Right from the start we have an interesting proposal. The spartans don't want these techs, we do! These are all builder techs, they have nothing to do with producing an army, with the exception of Bioengineering, which is again of more benefit to us than them. *TRAP* alarm ringing

So ... if Morgan Industries agrees to research - and pass on to us - Neural Grafting and BioEngineering, we'll give Morgan Industries Secrets and GS, (and prolly something else too - I imagine Ecological Engineering would be of most interest.)

A level 4 and 5 tech for a level 2 and 3?

Planetary Economics (the Ascetic Virtues) needs Adaptive Economics (which Morgan Industries should research - for the PEG if for nothing else) and Intellectual Integrity (which Sparta will shift to imminently - but we need to probesteal Doc Loyalty from Yang first - thus probably triggering a Vendetta we're not ready for yet.)

Intellectual integrity also leads to cyberethics. In a game like this where we can reasonably assume a quick tech progression through sharing, the planetary datalinks looks more valuable. Also, the spartans can't run wealth, so knowledge is all the more attractive to them.

So a deal might look like:

Sparta gives Morgan:

Secrets of the Human Brain

Gene Splicing

Ecological Engineering

Intellectual Integrity, when researched

We have gene splicing, EnvEcon would have to go on that list. Note that with the exception of IntInt, none of these techs have SP's attatched, they're just fillers.

Morgan gives Sparta:

Neural Grafting

Bio Engineering

Adaptive Economics

Planetary Economics

OTOH, here we have the neural amplifyer, the longevity vaccine, the planetary energy grid and the Ascetic vitues. All killer, no filler.

We'll undertake not to build the Planetary Energy Grid nor the Ascetic Virtues provided Morgan Industries undertakes not to build the Neural Amplifier and permits us to trade or sell those techs (after any associated SP's have been completed) - but only to the AI

They've already promised not to build the PEG.

*************************************************

This is exploratory - and unlike my previous attempt this time it has the support of the Junta (along the lines of "see what they might be interested in doing - what lines are they currently researching, what do we have that may interest them")

Be aware, though, that the diplo lines are humming after your completion of the PTS. Everyone remembers Kody's brilliant play last game (where the Hive went on a binge of colonypod building - found a new base, size 3, quickly complete 2 colony pods that in turn found new size-3 bases) and can extrapolate Morgan having, say, 30 to 40 size 3 bases by 2160 or so. You don't need rec commons with the +1 talent that the HGP gives you and the -1 drone that the PTS gives you (we note that already Vander Eudaimonics is again only a size-1 base, so the popbooming has clearly started)

This is nothing more than a thinly veiled threat. Also shows they don't have infiltration though, or they would know Vander Eudaimonics is size 3 (Again, IIRC)

As well, the ganging up has begun. However, as much as it is in my power to do so, Sparta will remian as a neutral middleman for as long as possible.

The Hive, too, is worrying us. Currently the good Chairman is producing no less than 15 impact-weaponed units, and is researching gatling weapons!! We need Silksteel Armour and Chaos weapons ASAP

Two things. 1, Sparta has been aproached by a third party asking for some sort of deal against morgan (Or more likely, they would like us to think they have in order to make us more likely to trade with them). 2, They are worried about us, as the hive too is worrying them. Interesting eh? Perhaps we could exploit that.

I'm known within the Junta as the leader of the "Morgan Wing" so I keep trying to engineer some deals that will benefit both our factions. But I do need to deliver from time to time. Otherwise the Junta might just bow to the pressure that's building and join the ABM axis (anyone but Morgan)

Perhaps we should claim we have contact with a third party - not too far fetched I don't think - and they've asked us to join the ABS axis (Anyone but sparta)?

Actually this whole paragraph is nothing but another threat, showing that sparta needs allies to survive, and moreover, knows that it cannot win against us alone. (At least not if they give us another ~10 years?)

I await your response

Googlie (Lieutenant-Colonel)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Commanding Officer, Spartan Engineering Corps; Commanding Officer, Spartan Special Forces

To me, this deal seems grossly onesided. We have things they need, and they have not much that we need. If they give us their infiltration screen and env econ instead of gene splicing, then this might be a deal worth considering, but right now, it's just a sparta plea for a slice of our research pie.

My (out of date!) 2 ec.s

[arginine]

Are you familiar with Googlie's "memo"?

I would like to keep the Spartans occupied long enough for us to get contacts and the PEG.

We could push a deal where we would get neural grafting then research it and the Spartans would get bioengineering. Once they have neural grafting we would research bioengineering then give it to them. Neither side will be allowed to trade it. My view is that the Spartans are closer to bioengineering than we are. We push to get neural grafting quickly. This way we can make ****loads of cleanformers.

We don't know how tight any 'coalition' would be... We could delay on building those CPs for a while to get the CPs in the right places, make a few contacts and deals and then we plop down the pods.

[arginine]

We don't know how difficult the other humans will be to deal with compared to the Spartans. We will find out eventually.

[Mead]

Chaunk noted:

To me, this deal seems grossly onesided. We have things they need, and they have not much that we need. If they give us their infiltration screen and env econ instead of gene splicing, then this might be a deal worth considering, but right now, it's just a sparta plea for a slice of our research pie.

I, even with my limited knowledge, tend to agree.

Sparta has just posted its turn. I want to do as little with them as possible until we get the PEG, other contacts, and better defenses.

I want to keep them placated.

I am thinking that we will keep talking with them but don't really do anything (except for a five extension of the current treaty) until they offer something that we really want.


Mead

[Mead]

Latest from the embassy:

Posted by Googlie:

My understanding is that the AI is covered as well under the "Choppers can't attack bases" rule. We can still take on ground troops outside their bases, though (but of course they can fight back after our turn is ended if we stay on the spot)

As to a phased approach to tech trading - nothing wrong with that. I used the blockbuster analogy to grab the Junta's attention with a Collins type BHAG (A business pundit who wrote a book about Organizations' Big Hairy Audacious Goals - such as Merck's "To rid the World of Disease" or Walmart's "To be the Shopkeepers to the World" - see: http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0060...0R#reader-page <http://www.aimoo.com/forum/images/messageicon/wink.gif>

Thus something like Clean Reactors by 2160, or MMI by 2170, or :Fusion Power by 2175 classifies as that type of BHAG

G.



Commanding Officer, Spartan Engineering Corps; Commanding Officer, Spartan Special Forces

He seems so very hopeful.

We have to let them down gently (eventually).

I don't want to string them along too much, and I do want to do business with them, but we need to find the right way to keep them engaged (and happily hopeful) without having them feel too bad (angry) when they don't get the very nice (one sided for them) tech deal they are hoping for.

Mead

[jtsisyoda]

Well, my take on this is a little more forgiving. We haven't told them much about our goals, so how can they be expected to help us toward them? Also, Lt-Col Maniac indicated after our previous negotiations, something to the effect of "maybe we should offer something ridiculous so you talk us down to something reasonable".

I suggest we have a serious, focused discussion (edit: within our faction) on what our goals are: techs, military, pop-boom vs. ICS, terraforming, etc. Only then can we really enter a synergistic relationship with another faction.

[jtsisyoda]

We've been focused on getting PEG and the planning for that is winding down (it's just a matter of execution and a little luck now). What's our Next Big Thing? Or BHAG, as Googlie calls it?

[Chaunk]

D:AP should be our next goal to my mind. Consider that we have a massive advantage in SPs, and hence we can assume in tech and infrastructure too (Although that might be marginal, or perhaps even imagined). We don't therefore, need to focus on build techs, but on conquer, to limit our weaknesses.

D:AP has become a massively stronger tech in this game than in most, and so I'd say we should push for that, and then MMI (With Bioengineering on the side for clean reactors).

In that vien, perhaps we could encourage sparta to forgoe the AV (Possibly) in exchange for an early (clean) D:AP, and a combined conquest of either a human faction or a push into the hive. Spartan jets powered by Morgan ec.s makes a VERY strong team. The build techs they are proposing will leave us like fat cats, too weak to defend our own very nice prize.

I'm not sure on this point, but we don't have HEC I think? So perhaps a tech leapfrog could be the start of the deal. We both research HEC asap, and the team that gets it first gifts it to the other in exchange for that team switching to SFF. This is then gifted back, and both teams start on D:AP. D:AP -> NG, NG -> Bio-engineering or MMI as allowed. The deal would probably have to stop there, but consider the techs we'd then have:

Noodles, missle weapons, Plasma armour, clean or choppers.

It's possible that one or two extra techs may need to be gifted by either side, so we should also have a "side dish" of techs we're willing to trade for the techs missed by the mod 3 rule.



As an aside, whats the address of the embassy? Couldn't see it in this thread....

[jtsisyoda]

Spartan Embassy: http://www.aimoo.com/forum/freeboard.cfm?id=618392

DAP? I'm convinced. And no, we don't have HEC yet.