Spartan Diplomacy

[jtsisyoda]

You could mention that what they ask for, never building the CDF, is actually a big deal. We haven't fussed over it publicly to them, but that doesn't mean they aren't asking a lot.

We don't need the techs this turn, but we're going to put some CP's down in the next three years or so. More important than that timing is securing peace and an alliance.

[arginine]

I would have prefered us paying 10 ECs for 15 years and US trading techs with the AIs, but no gripes here.

[arginine]

Hmm, they said the agreement was still under negotiation...

Since we are getting 2 techs, instead of 1. I'd like to put the no trade to AI clause back in and lets increase the amount of money we are offering. I'd be game for 165 EC (11 EC over 15 years). Hopefully, they'll accept it flat out, given ethic calc was previously 150 EC.

They presumably can get Ind: Eco from a human, so it's not wise to withhold it forever. Its value would be to 1) research Env. Eco. or 2) trade to the friendly AIs.

Since the Spartans want to trade it to friendly AIs, this also means the other humans don't have access to the friendly AIs yet.

I want to see if the AIs have Secrets of the Human Brain before we try to get it from the Spartans.

[arginine]

I figure a stance on needed techs would be desired for negotiations...

Here are some biggies:
Adaptive Eco. - get the PEG
Planetary Eco. - get the A.V. and planetary trade pact (very usefull, but we need the backing of factions for its passage)
Intelec. Integ - to research Planetary Eco. Almost certain Spartans will for it for nonlethal methods & C.D.F.
Ethic Calc. - to get Demo (useful now for eff, thus less drones with expansion and diplo w/ PKs).
bio-engineering - CLEAN REACTOR, make LOTS of formers
neural grafting - with gene splicing gets bio-engineering
SotB - trance and route to bio-engineering
Env Eco - needed for tree farms in pop boomed cities


We would like ethic calc in a few years so we can switch to demo. Definately in 3 years.

bio-engineering would be GREAT anytime.

Adapt Eco would be nice soon so we can make PEG

We will want Eco Engineering to use the rocky squares in ~~10-15 years.

We will want Env Eco when we need tree farms so we can pop boom. We'll ICS for a while so it can wait.



I would like to propose an extension to our deal...

get ethic calc now.

The Spartans start researching neural grafting.
We start researching gene splicing.

Spartans finish researching neural grafting and give it and gene splicing to us.

We get gene splicing, stopping its research and start on bio-engineering.

We finish bio-engineering and give it to the Spartans.

[Micha]

Well, I bet we are researching faster than they do, so it would have to be timed properly... Maybe we could lower labs and instead generate cash for a while? (in this specific scenario, that is)

[arginine]

True, I figure we'll be able to research an extra tech (like adapt eco) while they research neural grafting.

I think the Spartans are trying to get to I.I (for nonlethal methods police) and tree farms to boom their bases. I don't know if they'd be willing to deviate from their beeline to get clean reactors. (I hope they will)

[Mead]

Latest from the Embassy

I posted this in the embassy.

I have three purposes.

One, I want to move the negotiations along.

Two, I hope to, by politely showing a sense of urgency (a few hours after the DA got the turn) cause the Spartans to suspect that we made contact with the DA and are no negotiaiting with the DA as well.

The Spartans might suspect that we are trying to get an answer from them before we decide what to do with the DA.

Three, the Spartans will likely ask the DA whether they have made contact with us. The DA will say no and the Spartans will mistrust the DA.

If I succeed at one, and we settle on their last offer then I'm happy. If I succeed at two, and they accept our offer then I'm even happier. If I also succeed at three, then great.

Date Posted: 29/10/2004 4:05 PM

Majors Kassiopeia and Lt Col Googlie

Could you let me know tonight what your position is on our current tech trade negotiations?

On 27/10/2004 3:56 PM you offered:

The Junta has decided to turn down your counter-proposal. The earlier proposal by us was considered to be a balanced one, but your addition of a no-trade clause to Industrial Economics and a no-build clause of Planetary Energy Grid are a problem.

While the PEG issue is a minor one, the no-trade clause is not - we were willing to lower our price for Ethical Calculus from 10 to 8 times 15 because we expect to be able to trade IndEcon onwards for a sum of money that might slightly cover the decifit we will suffer from the lowered selling price of EthCalc.

With the no-trade clause, this is not the case for nine years, during which the monetary value of the technology will have rapidly declined.

If you can remove the no-trade clause from your counterproposal, we have a deal.

On 28/10/2004 1:02 PM I counteroffered:

To summarize again:
Our Revised Offer -

We give you Industrial Economics, 8 ECs per year for 15 years (120 ECs total), our commitment to not transfer Ethical Calculus to anyone else for 9 years, and our commitment to never build the CDF.

You give us Ethical Calculus, Gene Splicing, DELETED[your commitment to not transfer Industrial Economics to anyone else for 9 years], and your commitment to never build the PEG ADDED [and your commitment to never build the Ascetic Virtues].

I have not heard from you in a while. Could you let me know tonight (or perhaps early tomorrow morning) whether you are sticking with your offer, whether you accept our offer, or whether there is a third option you wish to propose.



Mead
CDO, Morgan Corp.

Hopefully we'll have a deal within 24 hours.

Mead

PS

Although the Spartans might suspect we made contact with someone else instead of, or in addition to the DA, their greatest suspicions will fall on the DA because of the timing of my post.

[Mead]

PM's to Kass and Googlie

I sent the following PM to Kass and Googlie.

I hope to get a response from them tonight and further cause them to think I'm in a hurry but trying not to tell the real reason (that we met the DA).

Fw: Tech Trade Status?


quote:

Mead wrote on 29-10-2004 19:42:
Kass and Googlie

I posted this in the embassy.

Could you let me know what's happening. I'd really like to move the discussions along. I think my team is getting a little fed up with me for taking so long to reach a deal.

quote:


Majors Kassiopeia and Lt Col Googlie

Could you let me know tonight what your position is on our current tech trade negotiations?

On 27/10/2004 3:56 PM you offered:


quote:

The Junta has decided to turn down your counter-proposal. The earlier proposal by us was considered to be a balanced one, but your addition of a no-trade clause to Industrial Economics and a no-build clause of Planetary Energy Grid are a problem.

While the PEG issue is a minor one, the no-trade clause is not - we were willing to lower our price for Ethical Calculus from 10 to 8 times 15 because we expect to be able to trade IndEcon onwards for a sum of money that might slightly cover the decifit we will suffer from the lowered selling price of EthCalc.

With the no-trade clause, this is not the case for nine years, during which the monetary value of the technology will have rapidly declined.

If you can remove the no-trade clause from your counterproposal, we have a deal.





On 28/10/2004 1:02 PM I counteroffered:


quote:

To summarize again:
Our Revised Offer -

We give you Industrial Economics, 8 ECs per year for 15 years (120 ECs total), our commitment to not transfer Ethical Calculus to anyone else for 9 years, and our commitment to never build the CDF.

You give us Ethical Calculus, Gene Splicing, DELETED[your commitment to not transfer Industrial Economics to anyone else for 9 years], and your commitment to never build the PEG ADDED [and your commitment to never build the Ascetic Virtues].







I have not heard from you in a while. Could you let me know tonight (or perhaps early tomorrow morning) whether you are sticking with your offer, whether you accept our offer, or whether there is a third option you wish to propose.



Mead
CDO, Morgan Corp.




Thanks

Mead





PS
I forgot to put this in the message to Kass, but could you guys let me know either tonight or early tommorrow morning.

Many thanks,

Mead

[arginine]

They can check their saved game to see if we had contact with DAs if they really wanted to. Still clever...

I would still like to see if we can keep the non trading restriction and just give the Spartans more money.

I cite

"we were willing to lower our price for Ethical Calculus from 10 to 8 times 15 because we expect to be able to trade IndEcon onwards for a sum of money that might slightly cover the decifit we will suffer from the lowered selling price of EthCalc."

I think trading the tech is worth more to us than the money. If money is worth more to the Spartans than trading the tech lets give them the money. At the very least we will be able to GIVE the friendly AIs that tech. I think that will have a bigger positive effect on diplomacy with the friendly AIs than 40 EC.

PS - from my limited experience the Spartans tend to post in their forum when they are taking their turn (a good idea)

[Mead]

Latest From Embassy

They withdrew their offer and my response.

Date Posted: 29/10/2004 7:55 PM

Reply to : Kassiopeia


It appears that when we are proposing a deal to you we should never open negotiations with what we believe is a fair offer, but rather double the asking price. That way, after all the beating down of our asking price and the addition of your escalating demands, we might actually have a deal that we can live with.The proposed trade of Ethical Calculus and Gene Splicing for Industrial Economics and 120 energy credits has been withdrawn.

We are disappointed with your withdrawl of your offer. We were strongly considering accepting it, but sought to explore whether there were other oppurtunties where we could better help each other meet our needs.

Please note that the promise to not build the CDF, the best defensive SP available in this game (now that the CBA is gone) was a major concession on our part. Your possession of the CDF, and denial of it to all the other factions, would be a substantial benefit to you and loss to us.

We remain willing and eager to work with you.
If you want to put your offer back on the table, that is fine with us, if you also want to make another suggestion, we would be happy to hear it. Our offer remains open and on the table.

If you feel your offer is fair and one you can live with then why remove it from the table?

We felt that the no AV build clause was a fair exchange for you being allowed to profit on trading (Industrial Economics) while we could not profit off trading for 9 years off (Ethical Calculus). Is keeping your options open on building the AV that important to you? We thought it didn't matter all that much to you. We are eager to hear what you have to say.

Mead
CDO, Morgan Corp.

[AndiD]

When the Spartans build the AV, they get a POLICE +2 rating with allows them Free Market (= decent research and cash) without peace drones, so the AV is still of value to them.

[Micha]

Originally posted by arginine
They can check their saved game to see if we had contact with DAs if they really wanted to. Still clever...

I think what Mead meant is that the DA have just done their turn, where they could have met us, so they may have told us about it and started a Angel-Morgan embassy forum like the one we have with the Spartans.

They cannot tell whether that´s true or not until it´s their turn again.

[Mead]

Latest from the Embassy

Posted by arginine

Since the issue is not officially in negotiation.

Morgan Industries gives Sparta:
180 ECs (15 EC year/year for 12 years)
Ind. Eco.

The Spartan Federation gives Morgan Industries
Gene Splicing
Ethic Calc.

This part looks like it was redacted or 'blacked out' but is still readable:

Neither side may give, exchange, transfer, etc. tech for 10 years.

Restrictions on SPs can be worked out if desired...

I am NOT an official spokesman of Morgan Industries or its subsidiaries regarding official policy.

[/quote]


It seems rather generous. We'll see what they do.

I'll try working Kass via PM for progress.

Mead

[Mead]

I posted this in the embassy after I exchanged PMs with Kass. He says he's open to the deal but wants us to make the offer.

Date Posted: 30/10/2004 1:12 PM

Major Kassiopeia


Earlier you posted:

The Junta has decided to turn down your counter-proposal. The earlier proposal by us was considered to be a balanced one, but your addition of a no-trade clause to Industrial Economics and a no-build clause of Planetary Energy Grid are a problem.

While the PEG issue is a minor one, the no-trade clause is not - we were willing to lower our price for Ethical Calculus from 10 to 8 times 15 because we expect to be able to trade IndEcon onwards for a sum of money that might slightly cover the decifit we will suffer from the lowered selling price of EthCalc.

With the no-trade clause, this is not the case for nine years, during which the monetary value of the technology will have rapidly declined.

If you can remove the no-trade clause from your counterproposal, we have a deal.

Per our recent discussions I understand that is the best and final offer of the Junta.

So we incorporate your terms removing the no trade clause on Industrial Economics:


We Offer
We give you Industrial Economics, 8 ECs per year for 15 years (120 ECs total), our commitment to not transfer Ethical Calculus to anyone else for 9 years, and our commitment to never build the CDF.

You give us Ethical Calculus, Gene Splicing, and your commitment to never build the PEG.

If you agree, please send both Techs to us preaccepted and post a response here confirming your acceptance.


Mead
CDO, Morgan Corp.

Mead

[arginine]

I wouldn't try pushing Kass, they'll respond when they want to and probably before our turn is finished.

I personally feel our ability to trade or give Ind. Eco. to the AIs is worth more than 60 EC. I originally would have pushed my posted offer at 165 EC before their withdrawl of the trade. I will not go above 180 EC.

The Spartans had mentioned being able to offer a lower price of 120 EC from 150 EC by trading the tech Ind. Eco to get some more money. No reason for them to get money.

It is possible that they already have done a deal with the Angels (and/or) Gaians for the tech.

I find disturbing that we do not have consensus on if we want to give the Spartans rights to trade w/ AI Ind. Eco. I feel we MIGHT have to bribe the friendly AIs in order to get friendship (trade) treaties with them. If we don't need to bribe the AI we can trade Ind. Eco. for something.