Spartan Diplomacy

[Micha]

Nice

As for contact, I assume they just popped a unity foil.
And regarding our interests, what is "human psych"?

[Mead]

Kass Posted this in the embassy:

Note, though, unless we are pacted to the faction wanting to trade. The other Lieutenant Colonel of the Junta, Googlie, will elaborate on this, but I am willing to state that the Junta has been seriously considering the possibility of allying itself with Morgan Industries, recognizing the way our two factions would complement each other. I recommend your faction starts a discourse on this possibility of extended co-operation as well.

More to the matter of the current topic, would you be interested in Ethical Calculus? We are willing to part ways with it for 10 years of 15 credits per year. You must agree to not build the Citizen's Defence force, however, and you must not trade the technology to a third party (or gift a unit with an ability allowed by the traded tech to a third party) for 15 mission years.

For the Junta and the Federation,


Major Kassiopeia, Diplomatic and Foreign Affairs Officer of the Spartan Junta.

Mead

[Mead]

I posted this reply:

Reply to : Kassiopeia

Note, though, unless we are pacted to the faction wanting to trade. The other Lieutenant Colonel of the Junta, Googlie, will elaborate on this, but I am willing to state that the Junta has been seriously considering the possibility of allying itself with Morgan Industries, recognizing the way our two factions would complement each other.

Our two factions could complement each other very well.

Please note that if we were to Pact we would need to modify the sharing of the Morgan bonus. Right now we are being hurt by giving half our commerce income to you. If, as a result of Pacting all our bases go to [Morgan get 3, Sparta gets 1] ECs from commerce, then under the current terms we would have to send Sparta 1 EC per base that has commerce. With all the allocation and ineffciency issues we'll be losing even more money from the deal than we are losing now.

***
More to the matter of the current topic, would you be interested in Ethical Calculus? We are willing to part ways with it for 10 years of 15 credits per year.

H'mmm an Installment Plan. I'm not sure we need it or want it at that price, but the idea of an installment paymnet plan allows for a lot more flexibility.

Please be aware that Pacting would be a significant event. The Articles of Incorporation and Bylaws would require substantial consideration by all the shareholders before we could agree. Although the benefits could be many, and the sooner we act the sooner we could both benefit, we don't want to be rushed into a decision.

Let's talk about it but not be hasty.

Mead
CDO, Morgan Corp.

I want to keep them talking but not rush into anything.

What are the dangers of Pacting?

What are the benefits?

I'm thinking (not too deep I know) offhand:

They get to see details of all our bases. They get to see how weak we are militarily. I am not sure I want them to see our internal garrisons, support, and production until we have some better defenses.

I am not sure I want to enter into a Pact until we meet the other factions.

Mead

[jtsisyoda]

With a pact, they'll know how little military we have. They've already seen two coastal cities with no garrison, so the worst of that kind of damage is already done.

They know where we are. If we pact, I'd want to know where they are. We would have to trade screen shots of our world maps, or at least maps of our respective home turfs in relation to the Hive.

Giving them ec's over 10-15 years for a tech is a great idea. Don't tell them I said that, because I mean great for us. If we owe them something, they'll be less likely to attack us. Inflation is big in SMAC... payment over time is in cheaper and cheaper dollars, plus we don't lose as much to "opportunity cost". (Opportunity cost = what we could have built with the money we gave away, including the return on the investment.)

However, before we jocky too much for techs, we should make every effort to steal what we can from the AI, especially PK's and Zak, and I guess Yang, too.

I don't have a lot of time for considering everything in depth, so everybody please read what's going on and express your view. It will help if it's more of a group decision, and not overly reliant on a less and less available COO.

[arginine]

We don't know how much the AI will charge for their techs and use of probe teams will guarantee war with an AI. We want commerce with the friendly AIs and avoid war with Yang. Our best option would be to have a proxy human steal techs from the comps and trade them with us. Unfortunately the Spartans are not being as cheap as we like and if there is indeed a Gaian-Angel alliance of sorts the other humans might not be receptive either.

I suggest we declare to the Spartans that we hope to acquire by nonresearch means some techs (lacking military value) and potentially buy from them. Namely we declare the techs Social Psych, Ethic calc, Secrets of the human brain and gene splicing and we might buy them in the future. We should also try to trade biogenics to high energy lasers (which they know we don't have).

I guess we are waiting to get contact with the AIs before we buy tech from the Spartans.

If we had the backing of the Spartans, we will have 1 more vote for the planetary concil (global trade pact) and for planetary governor. The spartans might also be able to influence the friendly AIs to vote for us

I personally want to get trade agreements with the other humans for as long as possible, then run for governorship and pass the global trade pact.

[arginine]

We'll get the human commlinks by trading them from the AI in about 10 turns. I bet the Angels are below us since the gaians? got contact with the spartans first. Either way, once we find an AI, the vessel goes straight south for human territory.

I would like to propose that we and the Spartans will eventually agree to prevent Angel or Gaian ships from entering our interior waters. Namely, we would monitor & guard our western side, and the Spartans would guard their eastern side. Also this agreement would be kept secret and we merely say they are not allowed to enter their territorial waters.

We tell the Spartans we will look to acquire Social Psych, Ethic calc, Secrets of the human brain and gene splicing and we might buy those techs from them. We should also try to trade biogenics to high energy lasers (which they know we don't have). We want them to go for intelecutal integrity ASAP and get it (so we can research planetary economics)

Also tell them we won't need the techs for several years (except for maybe High Energy Lasers).

I think we agree not to do anything major until we get contact with at least the AIs and probably the humans. Namely, we might trade a tech or two, make small payments ~10 EC / turn, but do little more.

[AndiD]

I would advise buying EthCalc pretty soon and going Dem. The saved ECs by increased efficiency will soon pay for themselves (especially with PEG) and the then-missing 10 minerals on founding a new base aren't as tough with size 3 bases all the way round. Apart from that, Dem will please Lal...

Downside: Dem will make Yang angrier...

[Mead]

Latest from the embassy:

Reply to : Kassiopeia


A copy of a personal memorandum from Captain Googlie to your CEO Chaunk (or possibly another Morganite senior executive such as jtsisyoda) has come to the Junta's attention. I am personally not aware of its contents, but by order of Lieutenant Colonel Maniac, senior officer of the Junta, please disregard its contents.

Captain Googlie has been cashiered for his intemperate actions.

Huh? What happened?

What comes to your displeasure at our current profit sharing arrangement, I have been instructed to pass on the Junta's response: we are prepared to reduce the status of our relationship to a Truce if that suits your economic model better.

No, it's OK, even though it's costing us more than we wanted, we agreed to the treaty deal and we will honor it.

I have also been instructed to tell you that at the present time, after careful thought, the Junta does not consider a pact with Morgan Industries to be a likely option. I have, as you put it yourself, been hasty on this matter.

We understand your wish to be deliberative. We of course remain open to considering a Pact. Your suggestion initiated considerable discussion with the Corporation; which is still ongoing.
Mead
CDO, Morgan Corp.

I have a few questions and observations.

1. What are they talking about regarding Googlie?
2. Why are they trying to get out of the Treaty and avoid the Pact?
2. Are they trying to be coy with us?
4. Or do they realize that we will have the PTS this turn (how?), are now vulnerable to attack, and want to take us out before we make contact with other factions become dominate?

5. Do we want to buy Ethical Calculus now to make use of it, and to give them an incentive not to attack?


Mead

[jtsisyoda]

Yesterday I received a "confidential memo" from Googlie. It was very long. He was not acting officially, but he was trying to lead a small group within Sparta that was interested in pacting. I hadn't gotten around to responding and hadn't decided whether to bring it up to you guys before doing so. Dealing with splinter groups doesn't help when they're put in the brig during the invasion, know what I mean?

Edit: Googlie must've fessed up, or someone in his "inner circle" of Pact-seekers leaked it to Spartan leadership.

[jtsisyoda]

I say buy Eth Calc on the payment plan, for the peace incentive, and since we'll have some more bases very soon. Otherwise, we might need 50% psych to control the drones, due to inefficiency losses at perimeter bases. But try to bargain it down a little with a lower counteroffer. If they don't budge, try offering the same ec's, but pay less now, more later... e.g., instead of 10 every year; do 8 for the first few years, then 10, then 12 in the later years.

[Micha]

Originally posted by jtsisyoda
I say buy Eth Calc on the payment plan, for the peace incentive, and since we'll have some more bases very soon. Otherwise, we might need 50% psych to control the drones, due to inefficiency losses at perimeter bases. But try to bargain it down a little with a lower counteroffer. If they don't budge, try offering the same ec's, but pay less now, more later... e.g., instead of 10 every year; do 8 for the first few years, then 10, then 12 in the later years.

Excellent. Let us reduce the first payments as much as we can, added together we might even offer them more than they want. Always remember that the first payments will generate compound interest, so effectively they´re worth much more than later payments of the same nominal value.

I also prefer getting EthCalc instead of using half of our budget for non-profitable purposes like calming down poor drones.

Regarding the Spartan policy, I expect invasion soon. Let´s hope I´m wrong, but let´s also prepare as well as we can.

Lastly: jts, would you please share Googlie´s memorandum with the other boardmembers? The supervisory board cannot accept secret information transfer between a board member (even if it´s a senior manager) and the competitors...
[could you please at least tell us more about the content? thanks ]

[arginine]

I believe the fact they were debating to Pact with us or not means they don't have an invasion force ready at a moment's notice.

If we are truly concerned about Hive invasions then get naval superiority. I believe we can get that by building coastal bases in the SE and E. We make those bases size one then make some ships.

Meanwhile, we hope we can get weapons tech from the AI. If we want to be aggressive, we can begin research on high energy lasers.

[jtsisyoda]

The memo isn't really relevant. Googlie can't operate on his own, and neither can I. I don't really see the point of the thing, except as role-playing. I replied to Googlie to that effect, and no more... so "information exchange" is not the proper term.

Perhaps this is a silly attempt to sow unrest by creating some kind of conflict, since the memo is labelled "confidential", but then they tell everybody about it. Trying to put me in a no-win position of sharing/not-sharing. I suggest we drop the whole thing and get back to real strategy.

[Micha]

Well, let me just say that your attempt to ignore the whole issue makes some of us really want to know it

[Mead]

Latest from the embassy:

Reply to : Kassiopeia


***
More to the matter of the current topic, would you be interested in Ethical Calculus? We are willing to part ways with it for 10 years of 15 credits per year. You must agree to not build the Citizen's Defence force, however, and you must not trade the technology to a third party (or gift a unit with an ability allowed by the traded tech to a third party) for 15 mission years.For the Junta and the Federation,

Thank you for your offer to sell us EC. We would like to purchase it, but considering the restrictions you are placing on its use or subsequent transfer we would like to pay 90 EC.

We offer to purchase it (with the restrictions you impose) for 6 EC per year for 15 years.

If you accept, please post your acceptance and send it to us preapproved.

Please note that this offer, of course, will no longer be available if we acquire EC from another supplier.

Mead
CDO, Morgan Corp.