Spartan Diplomacy

[arginine]

Since I think Gene Splicing was extorted (or stolen), and gave us a pretty high price for it, I think they are either playing hardball with us, or have not decided on how they are going to treat us, so they gave us an unfavorable deal.

I wonder how concerned they are about the Gaian-Angel alliance, or how much they know. Unlike us, the Spartans can extort the AIs quite readily or conquer their bases, and use cheap police units for drone control.

I bet the Spartans know they can cripple us if they act quickly and are pondering if they should cripple us,or have us as an ally.

[Impaler[WrG]]

Well I am glad we have hit the Diplomacy stage of the game. I would say negotiate down the price of Gene Splicing to about half what they are asking. In any event after PTS it will be more affordable and desirable for us.

We must point out that the revenue sharring is TEMPORARY. Agree too it for 10 turns or something like that but dont let them have the expectation that its perminent. This will come back to bite us if we dont make it clear right now.

We need to make contact with the AI's Zak and Lal as soon as possible to secure more trade that dosent need to be shared with Sparta. Contacting Angels/Gaians is also a priority for all we know Sparta may be lieing to us as to who is coperating with who.

Highest priority remains PTS with exploration/trade being second followed by Expantion of bases/infastructure.

[arginine]

The other humans know that Morgan is reliant on trade. The other humans are not. They can decide if we get their trade routes or not. Humans make up 3 of the 5 potential trading partners, and they will talk to each other, and might end up comparing the revenue sharing deals they have with us. I don't think we will have much luck negotiating our revenue sharing with other humans down.

Another point: I would like to thank WhoHa who sort of figured out our gimmick.

// begin quote
excellent, what kass wants still puts us in the advantage. We get tech from trade, and he just gets ecs. We should do as he requests for the time being.

Heres how it works, we get the raw energy, that goes to tech/econ/psych, and from there we can give him econ only, no tech to make up the difference in the trading.

as for the tech trade, not yet, we need to get the pts, and we should be throwing our economy behind that in full.
// end quote

Namely, the other factions will use the RAW energy to figure out what ECON that will be revenue shared. With the PEG & Tree farms, the RAW energy is MULTIPLIED before becoming ECON. In effect, they recieve a LESS energy they think they are getting. Very clever.

Mead has sort of posted this in the Spartan diplomacy forums. The Spartans have posted a response stating EXACTLY how, commerce is differences are addressed. I don't want ANYONE to figure this out. I want that fact we know this to be CLASSIFIED. I want that post REMOVED, or REPLACED. I'd edit the entire message with something say "Ok, that's how it will be done, and state how they want the revenue sharing done". The Spartans have said how they want revenue sharing done, so LET'S DO IT HOW THE SPARTANS WANT IT DONE and NOT GIVE ANYONE NEW IDEAS.

We should still state that rates will be renegotiated in X turns, or if we end up working a deal with the Spartans let them know that they have a special deal and they officially recieve less.

[arginine]

On another note, lets try to buy some commlinks from the Spartans, in particular the AIs. I am guessing the Spartans got the Angel & Gaian comm links from them.

[Mead]

Originally posted by Impaler[WrG]

***

We must point out that the revenue sharring is TEMPORARY. Agree too it for 10 turns or something like that but dont let them have the expectation that its perminent. This will come back to bite us if we dont make it clear right now.

***

I was thinking of pointing out to them that the rate was subject to renegotiation from time to time, but thought it better to let it be left unsaid.

There is no need to remind them, now, that it is temporary. Whether we remind them now or tell them later, they will still be unhappy about a reduced rate of return once we do it.

When it comes time to renegotiate we better be in a position where they prefer to go along with the renegotiation rather than attack us.

In the interests of fair dealing we need to tell them the turn before we drop the amount. This way they can either teminate the treaty or continue it at the lower rate.

Several things will happen as time goes by.

They will be able to build more units/facilites with the addtional cash. Thier support burden will increase if they build too many.

Their (and our) income will go up as the number of cites goes up.

Under the current terms, the price of passage for our observer will go up, and the value of the intell (which is subject to misinformation) will decrease becuase we will start to deploy our ships.

With tree farms and other facilities the value of the raw energy we receive is more valuable than the ECs we share. Already, the Net Node at Morgan Industries multiplies the raw ECs received there.


They can kick us off the boat anytime they want (they should tell us the turn before we forward the ECs).
They (and us) can break the Treaty whenever we want.
We can reduce the amount any time we want (we should tell them the turn before we do so they can break the treaty if they want and kick us off the boat).



Mead

[arginine]

Hmm, getting gene splicing without having to do any research must have been pretty handy. Tech stealing from the AI is pretty handy. I'd push for a tech stealing operation to be established soon after getting access to the AI, but stealing techs makes the computer pissed at you, removing the possibility for trade.

Now, if we were to have a different faction do it and pass the techs on to us, we can get stolen tech and have trade. I envision us teaming up with a faction, and provide funding in exchange for any tech stolen.

I originally had the Angels in mind, but any faction will suffice. It would make a nice team building exercise. If the spartans have a base on the AI's mainland, they'd make a great partner. Yes, I am aware once the Spartans get HE: Chem, DAP is just 2 techs away.

[Whoha]

also the gaians building the WP is good news, they probably cashed their ogre in, which puts them and DA way behind us in crawler construction.

[jtsisyoda]

Ok, good job, Mead. Please ask them to remove Gene Splicing from the diplo box on their next turn. We'll go with just a treaty for now.

[#endgame]

Did they build WP or start it?

[Micha]

I thought Gaians said something about building WP...

But maybe that´s just been a fiction of their VotP storywriters...

[jtsisyoda]

The Gaians did finish the WP.

****

From Kassi in the Spartan Embassy:

Lack of any finalisation from the Morganite side has forced the Junta to reconsider the deal proposed earlier. Some in the Junta believe that the current terms are not favourable enough to us, considering how a treaty to us isn't quite as necessary as it is to the Morganites.

Therefore the Junta proposes that in addition to the 50% of extra trade income, the Morganites also pay for the running costs of SCC Hunter. We may not necessarily afford to upkeep it and thus need financial support for it. This would equate to 2 energy credits per turn.

The Junta is also wary of committing itself to a Treaty, so it also proposes that the Treaty be temporary, for a duration of five turns. This is standard procedure in interfactional relations in the Federation - that this was not in our initial proposal was because the Federation attempted to make our first encounter as amicable as possible, unfortunately due to your inactivity this may not be the case any longer.

The temporary nature is to ensure that such agreements do not become an unnecessary burden to our isolationist faction. Be most assured however, that through co-operation and gaining trust this Treaty will be most certainly extended after five years, and later on perhaps even upgraded to a Pact of Brotherhood.


Major Kassiopeia, Diplomatic and Foreign Affairs Officer of the Spartan Junta.

And my reply:

Sorry, when I posted the turn for you guys I didn't have to time say anything. I respectfully request that our temporary/apparent inactivity not be seen as disinterest in cooperation. We consider the deal finalized, but first you have to take Gene Splicing off the list in the Diplo box. I'm unable to take it off, otherwise I'd have accepted the treaty. If this is my error in rushing the turn, I apologize. (There's a reason Mead's the diplomat.)

[Impaler[WrG]]

Boy they shure are full of themselve

I say we turn this unit maintance thing down, they are getting a good deal as it is and they know it, we must show some backbone here.

[Mead]

Originally posted by Impaler[WrG]
Boy they shure are full of themselve

I say we turn this unit maintance thing down, they are getting a good deal as it is and they know it, we must show some backbone here.

They are getting probing to see if they can improve th deal, also known as getting greedy.

This is the response I posted in the embassy:

Reply to : Kassiopeia


Well met - will this mean that you agree to the additional terms we have specified: the upkeep costs of SCC Hunter (2 ecs/turn) and a temporarity clause (initially five years)?




Major

Please do not feel that we are uninterested in trade with you.

We agree to a five year term. We do not agree to upkeep costs of SCC Hunter.

We remain committed to the agreement we outlined earlier, as clarified by myself and Major Googlie

On behalf of Major Kassiopeia and my my fellow Junta Officers, we understand that the payment represents one half of the additional income Morgan receives as a result of the Treaty.

We see that additional income as being, (using a different example) what we would see in our F4 screen:

"Sparta Command, commerce income, Treaty with Morgan ...... 4 ec's (they get 6) " The additional income is thus 2, of which we each share 1 each:

As I stated earlier:

We understand and appreciate your concerns. Please understand that we do not get that additional commerce for free. Because of the Free Market, which helps make that income, we have problems with drones and exploring the world.

In return for us sharing the bonus ECs Sparta would share the intel from the SCC Hunter.

My understanding is that we are trying to accept the treaty, but not the tech (its current cost is too high).

The sooner we are able to consumate the treaty, the sooner both of us are able to enjoy the additional income.
Mead

PS
If you feel I am not being responsive enough to you just let me know. Oftentimes it is not intentional, rather it is just evidence of laziness on my part. My thoughts were we had agreed to the treaty, we would accept it (assuming jtisyoda knew how to accept it without taking the tech [I didn't know how]), and the treaty would be in effect this year.


PPS
There are those within the Corporation that feel that we are sharing too much, considering the hurdles we have to overcome in order to get that bonus. There are others that feel that we should be given operational control of the ship (direct where it goes) instead of just being an observer.

I, however, feel that the deal as clarified by you, Googlie and myself is fair and equitable.

If they and we accept the treaty just when and how does it take efect?

What are the mechanics?

How does them also offering tech complicate things?

Mead

[arginine]

I've only had to deal with computers for diplomacy. I would guess they are being aggressive. We did not say we we agreed to the terms, and were just idle.

In the past, the relative inactivity has ok, because we had already decided what we should do, and it took little time to do it. We didn't activity then. Now we have to determine how relations between the different factions will shape up. The spartans have a big advantage right now, as they have everyone's commlink and can talk to everyone. Hopefully our transport foil will get contact soon, and get us those contacts.

I was dissappointed we did not take the initiative and quickly reach decisions. We have done an ok job, but what is our strategy? How do we know if Morgan Industries has agreed to some issue? If we can't decide, I feel we will lose to those whom can, not to mention it is not fun.

I might as well become a lurker :P

[Mead]

Following is Sparta's Acceptance of the Treaty posted in the embassy.

They will also consider a lower price for the Gene Splicing.

What do we want to do with Gene Splicing?

I don't know what we will do with it. I know it is useful, but I thought we were beelining for the PEG. Do we need it right now?

Although I have no idea what it is worth to us right now, I think we should concentrate on the PTS and Techs for the PEG.

I don't want to ignore Sparta but I want some input before I respond to them.

Mead

(My latest Apolyton PM to you Mr. Mead is now redundant - please ignore it.)

It's fortunate that your inactivity has been unintentional - as I've stated before, we are not fond of hasty conclusions, but it's good to know that you have continued interest in us as we do have in you.

The Junta will accept the proposal in its current form: a temporary Treaty of Friendship for 5 years, the commerce income split as detailed already, and you receiving geographical knowledge from your observer on the Hunter. Be advised that the Junta might deem necessary to renegotiate the upkeep costs once the 5 year term is over.

Hopefully this will lead to an era of trusting, and above all, lucrative friendship.

The price for Gene Splicing (250 credits with a 20 year trade restriction) is open for negotiation, if you feel the price is too steep feel free to propose a new one for the Junta to deliberate on.

On behalf of the Junta,


Major Kassiopeia, Diplomatic and Foreign Affairs Officer of the Spartan Junta.