Spartan Diplomacy

[arginine]

As of now, the Spartans have agreed to a trade agreement, provided they get half of the profits.

They have also offered Gene Splicing tech for 250 credits, with the condition that we can not give it to anyone else for 20 years.

They also have information on Gaian-Angel cooperation, but that information is currently 'classified', but adds that information may be declassified later.

[Mead]

How are Going to Deal with the Spartans

Originally posted by arginine
As of now, the Spartans have agreed to a trade agreement, provided they get half of the profits.

What do they mean by half the profits? Do they mean that we give them enough profit each year so that they and us both recieve the same net amount (because of the Morgan Commerce bonus)?

They have also offered Gene Splicing tech for 250 credits, with the condition that we can not give it to anyone else for 20 years.

Gene Splicing for 250ECs. That seems a little steep.

They also have information on Gaian-Angel cooperation, but that information is currently 'classified', but adds that information may be declassified later.

Info on Gaian DA cooperation is classified?


Is this there final and only offer?

Who's doing the negotiations on their side?

Who's going to do the negotiations on our side?

We need to counter-offer to see how they work.

Perhaps Gene Splicing for a lessor amount plus the agreement to not give it to any other human team for 10 (or perhaps 20) years.

If there is true Gaian/DA cooperation in effect then the Spartans need us as much as we need them.

We should not be heavy handed with them and they should not be heavy handed with us.

Being overly generous to the Spartans will result in our defeat to them. Not being able to cooperate with the Spartans will result in the defeat of both us and the Spartans to another faction.


Mead

[arginine]

Unfortunately, most of our side is idle. That has been ok, since there has been little activity, but now we're going to need that involvement. Our leadership isn't here, execpt for jtsisyoda.

[Mead]

Originally posted by arginine
Unfortunately, most of our side is idle. That has been ok, since there has been little activity, but now we're going to need that involvement. Our leadership isn't here, execpt for jtsisyoda.

I don't mind talking to Googlie to explore Sparta's position.

I would like authorization from a consensus of the corporation (or at jtisyoda) before I contact Googlie.


Mead

[arginine]

I guess the first order of business would be to get the trade agreements worked out. We would be interested in getting Gene Splicing, but the prices being charged is rather high. Especially since we can't gift it. I would like contact with the AIs before we make any decisions like that.

I do find the Spartan's position on trade to be disconcerting... I wouldn't mind giving them a 1/3 or a 1/4 of the difference in trade revenues. But at this stage in the game we will be making all the money. Hmm, I'm tempted to give them 1/3 flat out, but in negotiating the rule is to never accept the first offer... However if we want any trade for this turn we will need an agreement soon. We could offer them 50/50 for the first 5 turns, then it will be subject to further negotiations.

[Whoha]

excellent, what kass wants still puts us in the advantage. We get tech from trade, and he just gets ecs. We should do as he requests for the time being.

Heres how it works, we get the raw energy, that goes to tech/econ/psych, and from there we can give him econ only, no tech to make up the difference in the trading.

as for the tech trade, not yet, we need to get the pts, and we should be throwing our economy behind that in full.

[arginine]

8 of the crawlers have been built. 1 of them will be ready when our turn comes around again and the final one will be rushed next turn. The turn after all the crawlers get cashed for the PTS. Most of the bases are building different stuff now. In particular, probe foils and cheap probe teams for coast probe defense.

Hey! Once we get the PEG, we get the raw energy for ECON, the PEG increases it by 50% then we give them energy, keeping the PEG's 50% gain for ourselves. I hope the other factions don't figure that out. I feel so greedy.

I think we should agree to it for 10 years, when the rate will be further negotiated. We could also say that we are doing it as a sign of goodwill between us. If our good will is taken advantage of, namely with agressive troop movements, then profits will be temperarily withheld.

I don't know how we will go about probing them.

We could also say that we have given up police powers with taking on Free Market. They will be recieving our increase in commerce without giving up any police powers. I suppose that arguement can wait until we renegotiate.

[jtsisyoda]

Mead, I'd be happy to let you be the diplomat for the Spartans. You seem to have a good grasp of the balance required. If there are no other nominations or volunteers, I say take charge. I'll stick to turnplaying and overall strategy and the diplomat can take point on negotiating deals and getting the rest of us to agree.

I agree we shouldn't accept the initial offer right away. The 250 seems steep, but our tech cost is 239, so it's not that outrageous. the problem is, it would take us six turns to come up with the cash. IMO we don't actually have any use for that tech immediately.

I think splitting the treaty income so we both get the same amount is ok, but we should definitely present arginine's argument about us using FM and them not.

[arginine]

I bet the Spartans can tell we don't have lasers, and nonlinear mathematics. Since lasers are needed for HE chem, we couldn't have researched it ourselves. They know we don't have contact with the two AIs (thanks to a little comment from Googlie). The fact they have 'classified' data on the other two factions, might be because of contact with the other two factions courtessey of the AI. That is logical to assume from the contact established by at the latest ~2136 between the two humans.

They have impactor weapons vs synth. They can tell we are weak now regardless of what we say. I thus propose we ask for impactor weapon technology after they finish their current turn, and try to pay for it without using any money in the immediate future (which could be used to rush transport foils). If they refuse we should rush a regular ship (not a transport), because it is slightly faster especially against fungus in our westmost base to reach to the AI. We might even consider switching our research to lasers.

I fear the Spartans will eventually gobble up the University and the Peacekeepers. This will cost us valuable trading partners, especially since they won't ask for redistribution of the profits. That concern is for farther in the future.

[Mead]

Originally posted by jtsisyoda
Mead, I'd be happy to let you be the diplomat for the Spartans. You seem to have a good grasp of the balance required. If there are no other nominations or volunteers, I say take charge. I'll stick to turnplaying and overall strategy and the diplomat can take point on negotiating deals and getting the rest of us to agree.

I agree we shouldn't accept the initial offer right away. The 250 seems steep, but our tech cost is 239, so it's not that outrageous. the problem is, it would take us six turns to come up with the cash. IMO we don't actually have any use for that tech immediately.

I think splitting the treaty income so we both get the same amount is ok, but we should definitely present arginine's argument about us using FM and them not.

I posted this to Kassiopeia in the embassy:


///Begin Post to Kassiopeia///

Reply to : Kassiopeia


And here I am. I'm the Senior Diplomatic Officer of the Spartan Federation, and the one you should be talking to when you mean business. The Junta is currently deliberating our stance on your faction, so I cannot divulge too much information, but the Junta does readily recognize the obvious opportunities co-operation between our factions would bring.

[/Q}

Hello Kassiopeia, I, Mead, am handling the diplomacy for the Corporation. We are pleased to meet the Junta. We recognize that we can both benefit substantially from working together.

Even more so if the Gaians and Data Angels have joined forces.To start things off, a Treaty of Friendship with the right terms is not certainly out of the question, nor is trade of technology for credits.

We have strong indications that the Gaians and Data Angels have, indeed, joined forces. Every year that went by without us meeting you was another year where they left Sparta and Morgan further behind.

Our primary problem with agreeing to a treaty is that of boosted trade income to you. You have much more, in that regard, to gain from a Treaty of Friendship than we do. Therefore we would appreciate, for example, a share of the additional profit you gain from such a Treaty: half of it to you and half of it to us sounds like a fair and acceptable deal.

We understand and appreciate your concerns. Please understand that we do not get that additional commerce for free. Because of the Free Market, which helps make that income, we have problems with drones and exploring the world.

We believe that entering into a Treaty would be beneficial.

Please consider:

1.
In recognition of the special commerce advantage, Sparta gets one half of the special Morgan commerce bonus.
For example: If in year 2130 Morgan gets 16 in commerce with Sparta and Sparta gets 10 in commerce with Morgan, then in year 2131 Morgan sends 3 ECs to Sparta so that both Morgan and Sparta get the same amount of commerce income from each other.

2.
In recognition of the Spartan exploration advantage, Morgan would like to place an observer on the naval craft that met us.
For example: We would like screenshots of the naval craft that is now off our coast. As your foil moves we would like to see what it finds. At the end of each turn Sparta would post a screenshot of what the foil sees. If that particular craft ceased to explore, then screenshots from a suitable replacement would be provided.

Although I do not know the technical details of how this can be accomplished I suspect that amoung the two teams someone knows how to post partial screenshots.

Please let us know if you find the above proposal acceptable. The longer we wait, the further ahead the Gaians and Data Angels move ahead of us.

We would also like to discuss tech trading and research goals and perhaps form a coordinated research plan.


Mead
CDO (Chief Diplomatic Officer), Morgan Corp.


///End Post to Kassiopeia///
[quote]
Let's see if they go for it.

Although unmentioned in the post, we will round down the ECs.

Although they will share roughly half the Morgan bonus, a Whoha notes, we will still get the full tech and psych bonus.

For now, I want us to be more valuable to Sparta alive than dead.

Mead

[AndiD]

Do you guys want me to offer a Pact to Kassi in the minigame? The Angels there were at Vendetta with Sparta right after the sunspots were over. I have a Treaty with both but traded more tech with Kassi than with Herc and have one of my sea formers working off the Spartan coast.

There was once a talk about a future Pact right on the beginning but after that - and after the long period of sunspots - silence on both sides. I don't need him at all (would transcend this way or the other in a couple of years), but perhaps it would make some subtle influence about his further dealing.

And, although I'm regularly skimming through the pages there and am ready to authorize newcomers to Morgan, I probably won't take part any deeper at the moment, since there are lots of other things to do for me here in Vancouver and I doubt I will become bored until I go back home in January...

[jtsisyoda]

Did you mean to exclude the psych and labs portion as Whoha was saying? (At least, I think that's what Whoha meant.) Your post to Kassi didn't seem to indicate that. I'm not trying to say yes or no on it-- just want to make sure there's no confusion... miscommunication can create conflict quickly.

[-SafaN-]

That 20 turn non trading prohibition: would it be for us alone or both of us?
I mean, can they trade it after they sold it too us?

We know they can't have researched that themselfes ...

What about contacts? Mayb those prices would be outrageous, but we can try

Greetz

[Mead]

Originally posted by jtsisyoda
Did you mean to exclude the psych and labs portion as Whoha was saying? (At least, I think that's what Whoha meant.) Your post to Kassi didn't seem to indicate that. I'm not trying to say yes or no on it-- just want to make sure there's no confusion... miscommunication can create conflict quickly.

I mean that if we get 10 more ECs they get 5. Say we have 10 bases and get 1 extra credit for each base because of the Morgan bonus then they get 5.

For example in year 2142 we get 80 basic EC commerce plus 20 bonus commerce.

We have a 40/20/40 allocation.

2142 we get 40 ECs to Econ, 20 to Psych, 40 to Lab.
2143 we send 10 ECs to Sparta.

It is simple, it is generous, but we still get the full power of the additional ECs for our Psych and Lab.

I want us to be worth more to the Spartans alive than dead. Also I want to place an observer on their ship not only to see what it sees but, also to keep track of it.

Eventually, of course, we will have to withdraw from the deal. But let's at least meet the other factions before we do.




Mead

[Mead]

Kassiopeia Response

This is his response.


Mister Mead,

Your attitude is laudable and we the Junta are glad to see such clear desire of co-operation from the Corporation. We have certain allusions of an Data Angel - Gaian Alliance and agree with you that to counter such a threat, further work together in the field of research and economy is required.

As to what comes to the Treaty of Friendship, we accept the terms you have offered. The Federation will receive half of the income bonus provided by trade, we will leave the details and number-chruncing up to our respective information and economy officers to sort out. Payments can be made on once per year basis.

And thus, we agree to let a Morganite observer team be placed onboard SCC Hunter, the naval craft now in anchor outside your base. Our intelligence department will provide you with geographical imagery of its progress and discoveries in exchange for your credit payments. We must, however, strongly emphasise that control of this vessel will at all times remain under Spartan control.

If you have a good reason to suggest a certain course, to perhaps recover a Unity pod you know of, the military command is naturally open to your recommendations. The possible spoils of these discoveries will need to be discussed on a case-by-case basis.

Should disaster befall SCC Hunter or should it be needed for other duties, we can then negotiate on a suitable replacement vessel for your observers.

As what comes to a co-ordinate research plan, perhaps it is best first that we finalize the discussion I have opened in the Research forum on a technology you might be interested in, Gene Splicing.


Major Kassiopeia, Diplomatic and Foreign Affairs Officer of the Spartan Junta.

I don't know why he is being unclear on the amount paid each year. I note that they will give us the screen shot after they get the money each year (there is potential for cheating us of the screenshot and of course always misinformation).

I would like to clarify the details with him before we commence with the treaty.


Mead