2134 End Turn and 2135 Discussion

[Mead]

I just downloaded the turn and took a look.

The DA comment 'cashing in time' worried me.

It looks like can still build the HGP, so I guess that means that they have not built it yet. It looks like WP, ME, and PTS have not been built either (I don't think they could possible have enough crawlers to build the PTS at this stage).

Some raw Intel and analysis:

Hive
Pop 39
Police State, Planned, Survival
[Wow, they are growing]

Gainans
Pop 11
Frontier, Planned, Survival
[Still no IA?]

Data Angels
Pop 6
Frontier, Simple, Wealth
[Are they concentrating making CPs?]

Spartan
Pop 9
Frontier, Planned, Survival
[What are they up to?]

Morgan
Pop 8
Frontier, Free Market, Wealth

Cash - 35
Net income (before Stockpile bug) - 26
Net income if we move the sliders to 60% Econ, 40% Lab 33 (-16% Lab ineff, -8% Econ ineff); at 70% Econ 33; at 80% Econ 36 (-48% Lab ineff, -24% Econ ineff)

Labs
We got Mobility this turn
Tech cost 203
Tech Accum 19 (need 184 labs for next tech: Flex)
Tech per year 35
Says we will get tech in 6 years, but we will get it sooner because of new bases.

Military situation

Our Probe is still sitting in the fungus eye to eye with the Hive scout.

The Mindworm is 40% damaged and has not moved from its rocky (non fungus) square.

Question - Do we want to attack it? We have a very Green + scout in Money Valley that could attack it after moving one road square to it (-33% hasty attack). Do we want to move the scout to it, check out the odds, and then if they are not good moving it back to Money Valley?

We have another scout in Impaler Polymers (Veteran - Independent) that can take the place of the scout in Money Valley if the attack fails.

We have another scout in Morgan Vulcanology that can move into SSR if the attack fails.


We have 5 crawlers that can make it to Impaler Polymers, plus the one just built in Impaler Polymers.

Question - With the cash on hand, can we send those to Impaler Polymers and rush those 6 crawlers for the HGP? Do we want to? If we do we will still have 2 crawlers left over. It looks like our nearest competitor on the SP front (the DA) is concentrating on CPs not crawlers. Do we want to take a chance and not rush the HGP this turn?

Assuming we cashed in those crawlers ZZT would be able to use its monolith. That's worth at least one crawler.

I was really concerned when I saw the DA comment in the Turn thread 'cashing in time' and I am still worried if they are thinking of cashing in for a SP.


Mead

[arginine]

So, they only had 6 bases, and they've built 3 CPs. Hmm.....

I should point out that the poster has put in money related references when posting the saves, so I wouldn't be too worried.

[arginine]

For the last 10 turns, assuming the angels have 6 bases of 4 energy production and 3 minerals. That would be 180 mins and 240 energy (split between econ and labs). 3 CPs and 3 crawlers would be 162 mins.

I wonder if the angels have been running at a higher tech rate and as a result just do not have the cash for rushing?

Note that we've had IA for 12 turns now. No ones knows when we'll make a SP and which SP.

Unless the angels quickly built a few crawlers shortly after IA, they are in a weaker position than expected.

If three of the bases are making crawlers and they rush the last row. 18 mins, rush the last 9. If each base makes 3 mins. Then they would have 3 crawlers by 2136. If 3 other crawlers are started in 2134 and the crawlers get homed to the other bases, making 5 mins turn. If the DAs rush also so it takes 4 turns, then 2138 the other 3 crawlers will be ready, then another turn to move the crawlers by 2139. This is assuming they push and spend about 100 EC and don't count the production of bases from the current CPs.

The Angels also don't have biogenics yet. It might cost them about 170? labs to research it.

I want to build crawlers instead of the CPs for the imediate future, at least where we won't lose many minerals, and 60% econ, 40% labs. Once we build the HGP around 2139 psych can go back to zero. If we can get the PTS, it will be worth it. If we miss it, we can rush the CPs quickly with our army of crawlers.

[jtsisyoda]

I'll play the turn here in a little bit.

CwArgs-- I wouldn't worry about the cash-in comment. They knew we had IA when we switched to Wealth, so they have to figure we're going to build something soon. It's possible they have infiltration, I suppose, but that doesn't give them magic powers for summoning more crawlers than us. Their population drop means either a) they're losing bases, or b) they're building CP's, not crawlers. Either way, I can't see them beating us to HGP. If I were them, I'd rather have WP anyway.

If they're playing mind games with us, maybe we could play back... let's set two different cities to two different SP's... two cities that will still be at less than 10 mins next turn, so we can switch them freely... that way, checking F5 is not a reliable source of info for them... they have no way of knowing when we'll really build an SP.

The Spartans are almost certainly going for Flex, for probe foils-- finding and infiltrating targets, and stealing tech.

Edit: Thanks for the summary, Mead.. saved me some work.

[jtsisyoda]

Amendment to last turn's future plans: SSR will rush 2 mins of a CP in 2138.

ZZT could've rushed a crawler, but then we'd be short on cash for CP's in two turns.

I had the scout attack at 2/3 power, with 3:3 odds (not 1:1??). My reasoning was that the former is already there, so the scout should at least be there to defend. With a bonus to attack but not defend, the scout has about the same chance attacking or defending this turn. I figured at least on the attack, we get cash if we win. However, we lost. The MW is 80% damaged, though, so it's going to be Lightly Toasted (TM) next turn. The scout at Imp Pol is now guarding the former, and the other scout has rehomed to SSR. The crawler and scout ZOC's prevent the MW from reaching Money V.

I set three cities to build the three cheap SP's. Let's imagine the other factions convening special council meetings to discuss this shocking development. Probably everyone will figure it's a bluff, but why not toy with them? All three of those cities should be set to produce CP's next turn.

[jtsisyoda]

Don't worry, those cities will have less than ten mins next turn, so no losses.

Econ is at 60%... Flex is scheduled for 2142, but yes, we'll have more cities to speed it up before then.

This is kind of a bizarro turn in some ways... lots of subtle decisions like the sliders, the SP feints, and not rushing at ZZT, that could be changed easily enough if you guys want to do something different. In the next twelve hours or so, I'll read any comments, make any possible changes, end the turn, and post for the Spartans.

[#endgame]

I like it.

I wonder what the SP bluff will set off?

-- CTO #endgame

[-SafaN-]

good work guys, although i find our expansion a little too thin to lose Scouts to mindworms. Why not let them attack bases and be sure to win
10 ec or a surviving scout (10 min) ...

just my opinion, i'm sure u know what u do.
btw is it possible to check the diplomatic status of the other teams vs hive? if some of them are in a war, then they are to busy to build sp's. Think we need a infiltration of the hive asap.

BTW how about testing diplomatics? Is it allowed to play a parralel turn to see if Yang serves us xenocoffee or threats?

Greetz, SafaN

[jtsisyoda]

From the Rules thread:
"Testing former orders and AI diplomacy (without accepting any deal) is allowed."

We'll probably need infiltration of the Hive to find their status vs. other teams. Our land route is blocked, so I guess we have to wait for Flex and probe foils.

A surviving scout is really 10 mins minus 1 min per turn of support. But I agree we shouldn't just throw them to the wolves. I was trying to protect our former, too.

[jtsisyoda]

Turn posted.

I designed a synth rover crawler... whenever we start popping pods again, we can hope to auto-complete one. The unit's worth ten rows, so I named it "Half an SP on Wheels".

[Mead]

Originally posted by -SafaN-
good work guys, although i find our expansion a little too thin to lose Scouts to mindworms. Why not let them attack bases and be sure to win
10 ec or a surviving scout (10 min) ...

***

Next turn we will be able to kill it for the 10ECs (perhaps more ECs???)


Mead