Lordship of Diplomacy

[Octavian X]

Originally posted by binTravkin


Hey I've always wanted this post (or somesuch) and Im very expierenced in diplomacies with AI!

I am still here, or at least have returned.

Still, though, I'd gladly welcome your help with AI diplomacy! I'm rather useless in that area, given my lack of SMAX.

[Illuminatus]

Seems there will business for this Lordship very soon - if Angels are the neighbouring faction we may expect contact soon as hours after turnplay.Question: If a human faction offers Treaty and we still could pop some pods on their island, should we accept Treaty? I suggest we refuse treaty until we are satisfied with our explorations.

Originally posted by smacksim
Question: If a human faction offers Treaty and we still could pop some pods on their island, should we accept Treaty? I suggest we refuse treaty until we are satisfied with our explorations.
Question: If an AI faction offers Treaty/Trade/Commlink/Maps/Pacts, what to do? I suggest we take the friendly + no-pay route until we have some probes in position. No need to antagonize the AI just yet.

Interesting questions. Since we may expect contact very soon we need to discuss if this is wanted? Perhaps signing the treaty and then continuing to pop pods, slowly leaving continent? We may use diplobabble to slow negotiations about withdrawal from their continent, using 'we were there first', ' exploring teritory for safety', 'seeking runaway worms' or so excuses.
Also, there is a question for mods. We can assume that entering that landmark will cause Spore Launcher to be seen by them, in return triggering contact. Is it reasonable to assume that this actions will trigger contact?
We should also decide if we wish to trigger contact with the other faction - preferable would be if we can sign a treaty of friendship and maintain exploration of the continent, popping pods intended for them. - perhaps withdrawing from their visual reach?

[binTravkin]

Question: If an AI faction offers Treaty/Trade/Commlink/Maps/Pacts, what to do? I suggest we take the friendly + no-pay route until we have some probes in position. No need to antagonize the AI just yet.

As the future
Advisor In AI Diplomacy
of our Lord Of Diplomacy
Octavian X

I advise to:

1st step, requests:

1.do not give AI any tech for free if his mood is good (NONCOMMITAL+)

2.give AI 1 tech, then try to get a loan from them, then go to war with them (if loan succesful), to not pay the loan back, if mood is
IN
(Ambivalent,
Obstinate,
Quarrelsome)

3.Give em nothing if mood is less than Quarrelsome!

2nd step, (case: good mood/no request/loan succesful & still wants to talk/)

1.good mood (good = first 4 levels):
1.1.Try exchanging tech if
(Magnanimous
Solicitous
Cooperative),
try treaty/pact if succesful,
try loan if not

1.2.Try treaty for unneeded tech, try loan, Sell unneeded tech for cash if Noncommital

2. no request:
2.1. try treaty
2.2. try loan
2.3. try exchange tech
2.4. try sell unneeded tech for cash

3. talks after loan:
try getting cash by threatening to beat him (causes Vendetta, no loan payments)

That should lead well for the 1st AI encounter, if loan is succesful and Vendetta is initiated, we can later use ither AI's hate against him to make a co-op war

The priorities for our diplomacy with AI should be:

1.getting cash from them and not paying back..
2.getting tech (probes more useful)
3.getting commlinks
4.getting maps

More detailed instructions should come in place later..

[binTravkin]

BTW:

Can I take this title, dear Octavian X?

Advisor In AI Diplomacy

[Illuminatus]

I think Octavian shall grant you the title . Great analysis Although we msut remember several things 1) Our most likely first AI encounter is AI 2) Zak and/or Lal is not likely to be met in next 10-20 years. So we should consider if vendetta with Yang is what we really want - he could be annoying and disruptive if he decides to pursue it and he probably won't have much money to give to us, nor will he have commlinks to trade.

[binTravkin]

I think Octavian shall grant you the title . Great analysis Although we msut remember several things 1) Our most likely first AI encounter is AI 2) Zak and/or Lal is not likely to be met in next 10-20 years. So we should consider if vendetta with Yang is what we really want - he could be annoying and disruptive if he decides to pursue it and he probably won't have much money to give to us, nor will he have commlinks to trade.

Ehem, what can I say..
If he is not going to have nor cash nor commlinks nor tech, then why do we need any trade with him at all?

I think if he asks some minor tech, we can give it to him, but nothing else and we can ask for treaty (name you price) if the terms are good, otherwise we'll just be having Truce or Vendetta anyway..

IMHO Vendetta with Yang is not so bad as when we meet the other AI's we can ask them to attack him, as he won't be very friendly with them either and we'll have probes to have his tech and convert his military..

And if we get 2MWs, 1 Rover and 1 Probe in his area, I think our generals will even be able to capture a base or two..

[Illuminatus]

Yes, indeed it would be better to start a vendetta to convert his units if we have money. We should start planning expedition to east however.

[binTravkin]

Yes, indeed it would be better to start a vendetta to convert his units if we have money. We should start planning expedition to east however.

Seems, you're making fun on me..

I didn't pretend we have the money needed for it, but Im just supposing that Yang wont give us a chance unless we gift him a load of valuable tech!

And I was saying that if the Vendetta occurs, we'll be able to drive him back with MWs/rovers/probes

[Illuminatus]

I am not making fun of you, relax I was only speaking hypothetically. Ok?

[smacksim]

Originally posted by Illuminatus
We can assume that entering that landmark will cause Spore Launcher to be seen by them, in return triggering contact. Is it reasonable to assume that this actions will trigger contact?
We should also decide if we wish to trigger contact with the other faction - preferable would be if we can sign a treaty of friendship and maintain exploration of the continent, popping pods intended for them. - perhaps withdrawing from their visual reach?

I'm not sure what you mean exactly, but they cannot initiate contact without actually moving a unit next to ours. Just seeing our units will do nothing other than put them in a panic....

I suppose you mean that they could justify using the commlink after seeing us, but AFAIK, this is not how a normal game is played, MP or otherwise. Contact must be made as it is in an SP game, IE, units touching (aw, how sweet).

I like the analysis binTravkin. Keep in mind that the AI might refuse to talk to us at any time, so repeated comm use can be dicey.

I'd suggest that if we meet a relatively weak AI faction we attempt to intimidate them into giving us tech or cash. We are in a very strong position from the AI point of view. This doesn't apply to Yang, who will have no tech that we want until after IA. Right now we want ZERO extraneous techs. They will merely slow our research down.

-S

[Chaos Theory]

Keep in mind that in 2131, we finish Industrial Economics, and can proceed to Industrial Automation. Further techs will not slow us at all.

[smacksim]

Now the question is 'Take techs off the restriction-lifting or clean reactor b-lines?'

I suppose we are slow enough in research that we might as well take any techs we can get, in hopes of trading them with the big-beaker researchers.

It is tempting to refuse all but appropriate techs though...The best thing would be to steal/trade for IA and then queue up Biogen/SoPsy, which are also likely to be traded. I'm dreaming

[Illuminatus]

Originally posted by smacksim


I'm not sure what you mean exactly, but they cannot initiate contact without actually moving a unit next to ours. Just seeing our units will do nothing other than put them in a panic....

I suppose you mean that they could justify using the commlink after seeing us, but AFAIK, this is not how a normal game is played, MP or otherwise. Contact must be made as it is in an SP game, IE, units touching (aw, how sweet).
-S

This was exactly what I wondered about.

[binTravkin]

'Take techs off the restriction-lifting or clean reactor b-lines?'

Hmm, we could take the techs which lead to OSFlight, but better make a new post in "Beeline" thread (I think there was one) with this question!

[binTravkin]

More analysis by binTravkin:

Chapter XenoNumber:
Human Alliances:

I suggest:

Phase I: Contact:
After we meet a human opponent, we immediately offer him treaty, which he is most likely is willing to accept for some basic reasons:

1.
It's practically neutral as it doesn't give anyone anything except some income and assurance that they'll not be blocked in their territory by moving in units and they'll not be terraformed out of their land (which is quite impossible at the first 50yrs of game)

2.
We're not Morgan, therefore any human faction who uses FM is likely to get small advantage in commerce value (which is not likely to show up until 2150)

NOTE: giving a treaty to Morgan could be harmful, therefore it must be discussed, and in this discussion please take in measure, that WE ARE GAIANS!

Phase II: First Conflicts:

1.
We need a faction to probe-rape!
We choose 1 faction with:
*abundant tech
*enough proximity to us
*possibly some other reasons, why shouldn't we be friendly (Morgan -> commerce bonus for him)

2.
We probe him to death while trying to maintain treaties with all other factions!

NOTE: The point is to keep all other factions from knowing us (our map, our F4 stats) as long as possible, therefore comes:

Phase III: Living in peace:

We do not give our maps away and try to prevent any other kind of gaining knowledge about us (a.k.a. infiltration)!

This should be our main diplo-postulate till someone launches 1st sat!

CASES:

If someone gets our map (and we are aware of that):
We do nothing, but try to trade his map in..

If someone infiltrates us (which we should avoid at all costs):
We try to pact with him except maybe if he's Morgan - then we just try to infiltrate him

If someone builds EG/Goes governor:
Same as above..


And:
After we've picked a "black sheep" or however it's called, we try to convince everyone (AI's also) to attack em and therefore try to make a big alliance..


Regarding "black sheep" - I think there'll be 2 very powerful factions:

1.Morgans
2.Angels (as EN is cheating with the turns)

Therefore I think we should really align with Spartans & some AI (possibly not Hive ).