Moderator Game News

[Drogue]

Thanks, I have posted.

[HongHu]

Drogue, please look at this thread.

[Kody]

So be it.

[HongHu]

I agree with what Drogue and you said. Engima has to learn at his own pace. However we believe differently what is the best way to help him learn. You believe to let him continue is better, while I do not feel it is fair to the others. And I agree with Googlie too. His wins will not mean anything if people know he has obtained them through cheating. How would he realize that? Well I think we better tell him that. It may be actually better for him if we tell him now, other than when he actually wins the game, and then you announce to all that his win is nothing because he cheated. If you are afraid that he'd hate you for spoiling his fun, well imagine how much he would hate you if you let him waste all those time, including some honest hours, and then declare him as the big cheater. If you are not prepared to do that then, then let me ask you when are you going to do that? Or are you never going to do that? If all CMNs for all pbems are like this, how would he learn that his cheating does not bring him anything if he actually wins each and every game without being caught?

I know I think straight. Perhaps I can't understand your way of thinking. But I really believe that SMAC better die from lack of interest than live through a bunch of young kids who don't know the real fun is not in the cheating. I also believe that if we have a culture that foster such behaviors, instead of condemning them, then SMAC is going to die even faster. In fact I already felt the lack of interest has started to grow inside me.

Yes I do not like to live in a world where good and beautiful things are overshaddowed.

[Kody]

MY year 2103 (Spartans)

Drogue:

Enigma didn't cheat last turn. I don't see what caused him to change his mind, did someone privately talk to him recently? Or perhaps Honghu's thread at bearbaiting actually worked.

[Drogue]

For Enigma's development, Kody is right, he has to learn himself. However there are many people playing this game, and I'm not going to spoil their fun to aid his development. If I suspect that he has cheated again, and I have a reasonable idea, I will ask the Angels to preminantly remove him as turn player. That reduces how much he can cheat quite a bit. If, however, he still insists on cheating, I will ask that he be removed from the game. Letting him learn not to is good for his development, but could wreck the game. I have a duty to stop cheating, so if it happens, I will stop it.

[Kody]

MY year 2103 (Gaians Turn)

I think that every time someone accuses him of cheating he'll just hide it better. That's what I've observed so far in the last few months I've been watching him.

If we don't want to kick Enigma out of all his PBEMs, it may be better to wait until he realises the pointlessness of cheating. My current policy I've decided to adopt is to let him cheat, but also let him know that anything he achieves is pointless if he does so.

Nobody really believes him to be a strategy king, he's just known as "lucky pod pop" so far and if that changes, meh we can quietly mention below any of his boast posts that we know. He'll come clean simply so that he'll be able to boast for real.

Edit:
I've been editing my posts to add the game time into the headings of my posts. This is so we have clear markers of when certain decisions were made.

[Kody]

Me and my big mouth.

Okay I'll explain my full viewpoint. It's not a simple matter of cheating or not cheating anymore now that he's shown that I can't quietly dissuaded him from cheating. Now it's all or nothing, because any half measure he'll see as an obstacle to overcome.

At the moment I don't think what he's done deserves a kicking from the game.

He's got his flaws, but he has shown he's willing to change, but he has also shown it will be in his own time, not when we want him to. He's a fast turn player, very interested in the game and might I add the game SMAC is slowly dying out from lack of interest.

Also you said so yourself that when you're new you try out cheats. Now some people just take longer to learn than others. I hate to say this, Enigma is a slow learner when the answer cannot be proved mathematically or logically. If you approach cheating from a cold Machiavellian viewpoint as Enigma does, it makes perfect sense to cheat. He doesn't yet understand some of the wider concepts that make cheating wrong from a moral prespective.

In fact he's told me to my face that my morality will be why I will always lose. I haven't replied back to him yet on that because he wouldn't understand the answer. Basically, just because you lose doesn't mean you haven't won. He's so one dimensional sometimes, it comes out in the strategy he thinks of too.

I talked to Googlie about his viewpoint on the issue a while ago as Enigma was obviously cheating on the "Think you know everything - Turn Tracking", which is what first tipped me off on Enigma's activities and started me on watching what he was up to. Googlie reply from what I understand is that Enigma may win, but he doesn't really gain anything from winning if he's cheated and people know he cheated.

I think your post in the "Bear Baiting 101 Tracking Thread" was ill advised as it'll drive him deeper underground and he won't be so obvious anymore. In fact this recent turn he wasn't so obvious after my talk with him, but I could still detect hints of reloads. Whereas before he did something that was tactially stupid (if he hadn't been reloading) and the result was one chance in over a million literally. I think he must had reloaded 100->500 times to get those results.

Previously he was so confident that everyone would figure it out and once people could tell he couldn't brag about it at all.

I've asked Googlie if I can put his PM to me here as I may have mis-interupted what he said.

[Drogue]

HongHu: Thank you for not talking to the Angels directly, it could look a little confusing to them having it come from a non-Mod. I will PM Herc, Geo and Maki today, asking them their opinions, and to keep it quiet. Either Enigma stops cheating, or they remove him as turn player, or if it becomes bad, he is removed from the game. I'm hopeful it won't come to that, though.

[HongHu]

Well perhaps that's why he believed that he can manipulate people.

[Kody]

I've already let him go a few times. One more time isn't going to make a difference.

[HongHu]

For pbems that Enigma are in where you are not a CMN, I don't know if you have the responsibility of making sure he doesn't cheats. However you are the moderator for the Bear Baits pbem. You have the responsibility to ensure the fairness of this pbem. If you let him go, he'll think that he can sneak from even under you nose, and the others who he looks down upon anyway, who can stop him?

If you do not feel ready to do disclose his cheating, I could open an informal vote to all, discussing the possibility of somebody found cheating. The option would be, kick him out with a permanent "cheater" mark, let him continue on a promise of no cheating again, and we all abandon rules and run a free for all exploits festival. I'm not sure who would be the winner if we do the third option. I do not remember how to do the reload trick, was never interested. However I do know a couple cheats myself. I could use them too.

[HongHu]

Actually that was my exact thought when they accepted Enigma. But I thught they'd elect Geo as their turn player since it would be the most sensible choice. You probably noticed that I had prompted several times for an election but it looks to me that Herc really wanted Engima. I'm thinking that he didn't know Engima's reload trick, but wants his good "luck".

If we don't have evidence I don't know what the Angels will think if we just say that Enigma should not be the turn player. If we had support from Hercules things might get a little easier. I talked to Drogue this afternoon. Hopefully Drogue will talk to Herc some time. I don't know if I should talk to him, since I'm not a moderator after all, and I do not want him to think that I'm interfering Angel's affaires. He might already been a little mad because of my earlier PMs.

The bad thing with Herc is he is not on MSN so I can't talk to him directly.

[Drogue]

Kody: Thanks for watching Enigma closely. I will have a look through the saves, and see what I think. I'm not completely sure he's cheating, although it is looking like a distinct possibility.

I'll have words with him on MSN about it, and if it seems that he is, I will PM Maki, Geo and Herc about it, and see their thoughts. If needs be, we'll remove him from the DG, but a less drastic action could be to ask them not to allow him to be turn player, if we don't *know* he's cheating.

[Drogue]

Originally posted by Kody
My suggestion is we need to change the passwords just as a safety precaution.

Drogue your thoughts on this?

I'd say no. If it only affected 37 people, out of the thousands who use Poly, I don't see there being much chance at all of a security breach. It's not worth changing passwords over. If it had been anyone able to, I might have said yes, but with only 37 people, and only by that method, which would be very hard to get passwords from, and would need to be discovered, it seems highly unlikely.